SummitPost.org

would be nice to at least mention some of the ski/board descent lines

Great training program for possible link:

http://www.alpineascents.com/denali-train.asp

McKinley is still the official name. The current dual listing is fine, though I'd be tempted to list 'Denali' first. (In that case, the first paragraph should be changed to Denali throughout, and the third or so paragraph - the one that discusses names - should be first or second.)

Good to see an important page getting a freshen-up.

While recent arguments and events of immense importance over in the Forums would have someone think otherwise, Summitpost is/was first and foremost supposed to be a reference source for mountains, and discussions of same. Regardless of what you, me, us and any climbers think of 'Mount McKinley' or the guy it was named after, it is the official name, and many people both in the US and overseas know it by that name. If Summitpost is to be a genuine, comprehensive and credible reference it can not simply exclude something so fundamental based solely on opinion, ignoring fact. Maybe have the official name up front with Denali, then just use only the latter throughout the text (never referring to it as 'Mount Denali' as if you're some dumbs#*t newsreader).

I think the current overview is OK really, though you could go into more detail if you want to spend the time. I do think the second sentence slightly missed the mark though - it's not really just the northerly position that enhances Denali's 'reputation' but that fact that it's the highest mountain on the continent. I think that's a bigger drawcard than the lat/long

Maybe a section, or box section, on significant climbs in the history of the mountain - FA of each major route, first winter ascent, first solo, first winter solo, first woman etc. - so long as you can keep it to those basics and slide into the silly stuff. Oldest left-handed Texan with diabetes etc ...

D

Regardless of what you, me, us and any climbers think of 'Mount McKinley' or the guy it was named after, it is the official name and many people both in the US and overseas know it by that name. If Summitpost is to be a genuine, comprehensive and credible reference it can not simply exclude something so fundamental based solely on opinion, ignoring fact. Maybe have the official name up front with Denali, then just use only the latter throughout the text (never referring to it as 'Mount Denali' as if you're some dumbs#*t newsreader).

Damien, it's actually one of two official names.

The Alaska Board of Geographic Names officially calls it Denali and it is labeled as such on state maps, while the United States Board on Geographic Names officially calls it Mount McKinley and labels it as such on USGS maps. It all comes down to which has more precedence, the state government or the federal government, something which Americans like to argue about on a continuous basis. Either way, both names are official (though which one is "more official" can be debated).

It is interesting that Google searching for "Denali" has 8 times as many links and "Mount McKinley", though again this is somewhat scewed by products (such as GMC Denali) using the Denali name.

Regarding the costs section:

The NPS Web site still lists the mountaineering fee for Denali and Foraker as $200.00. There was no mention on the Web site on the fee increasing.

Transportation costs have more than doubled since I started visiting the range 10 years ago and seem to go up every year. Perhaps links to the various air taxi services fee schedule Web pages would keep the rates most current. I personally fly Alaska Air from Seattle to Anchorage because they seem to have the most flights and best prices (and my Dad works for them and has pulled strings for me in the past). One thing to note is hat they used to allow two, 70 lb checked bags at no extra cost and with a wink and a smile the girl behind the counter would check a ski bag for free. Those days are long gone, the first two checked bags are each charged $25.00 and are limited to 50lbs. Last trip I was charged $50.00 for a single extra ski bag and 'Do you know who my father is?' carried absolutely no weight.

FWIW Talkeetna Air Taxi is my favorite air taxi. They fly to many more places than the other outfits, have bunkhouses both in downtown Talkeetna and at the airport so you don't have to pay extra for lodging and the owner, Paul Roderick, is a climber and takes special interest in his clients attempting remote, seldom climbed routes.

On a similar note, the debate of snow shoes vs skis rages on. I have used skis very effectively for every visit to the Alaska Range, however, if I were to go back to Denali I would bring plastic snowshoes that fit in my duffel bags. We only used skis for the first two days getting to the 11k camp. Above that it was icy and we switched to crampons. Skiing down hill in mountaineering boots, a heavy pack, and a sled is a stupid joke. That said many climbers adept at skiing figure it out and make it work.

Here is a link to the best information on sled rigging I have seen: http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/201 ... gging.html

Some information on etiquette regarding the fixed ropes for the West Buttress route would be nice as well as proper caching techniques (bury caches 3 feet deep and mark with wands labeled with expedition name and date) .

Scott wrote: Damien, it's actually one of two official names.

I know, but Fletch was suggesting "just calling it Denali", ie. implying omission of 'McKinley' altogether, and I don't think it's right to do that.

It is interesting that Google searching for "Denali" has 8 times as many links and "Mount McKinley", though again this is somewhat scewed by products (such as GMC Denali) using the Denali name.

SUVs aside, popularity is no measure of accuracy. Most people think Christopher Columbus discovered America. How many Americans say "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less"? Aerosol cheese, trans fats, Hall & Oates, DDT and Sarah Palin have all been popular at one time or another ...

Damien Gildea wrote:SUVs aside, popularity is no measure of accuracy. Most people think Christopher Columbus discovered America. How many Americans say "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less"? Aerosol cheese, trans fats, Hall & Oates, DDT and Sarah Palin have all been popular at one time or another ...

Too funny!

One the OP topic I think a few paragraphs on altitude and high mountains would be helpful. I meet too many people on my trip that were on their first big mountain after Rainier or a CO 14er and were not well prepared for altitude. Cheers!

A couple more things; TSA has really clamped down on stove and fuel bottles in checked luggage. There is a display in Sea-Tac airport of explicitly prohibited items which includes MSR fuel bottles. I mail my stove and washed and dried fuel bottles to my air taxi service a month in advance with my expedition's name on the address label. I also include all the non perishable, prepared food for the trip. (Oatmeal, muesli, coffee, dried milk, energy bars, freeze dried dinners, instant rice, potato flakes, etc). This saves having to shop in Anchorage.

I also always take a red eye flight to Anchorage and catch the first shuttle to Talkeetna in the morning. This saves an entire day and having to pay for a motel in Anchorage. The shuttle (at least it used to) stops in Wasilla at Carr's (Safeway) where we would pick up the rest of our fresh food (cheese, sausage, chocolate bars, etc).

Another word about stoves. I have seen some climbers use canister stoves due to their light weight, ease of maintenance, and ease of use. That is a personal choice but it forces the climber to find and buy a pile of canisters in Anchorage. If you go with white gas you pay your air taxi for each gallon of gas and they issue you a voucher. Upon landing at KIA you exchange your voucher for gallon containers of fuel with the base camp manager. If you use a white gas stove bring the full on maintenance kit as well as an extra complete pump assembly. Make sure to keep the pump cup oiled and check all the O rings and gaskets for damage.

since pot is legal in alaska, how about a short section on where to get the goods?

I thought I read somewhere that Denali (McKinley) was 'officially' known as the Churchhill Peaks.
Does anyone know if this is correct?

ExcitibleBoy,
Thanks for that update on the TSA. I didn't realize it was possible for their A-holes to clamp even tighter.
Have ya heard any stuff about taking the train up to Talkeetna vs the shuttle?

Shortly after Winston Churchill's death in 1965, the National Park Service, after being goaded to do so by Alaska's Senator Ernest Gruening, named Mount McKinley and the North Peak of Mount McKinley the Churchill Peaks. The individual summit is still officially known as Mount McKinley. Hope that helps.

Vitaliy M wrote:

This FM's picture has to be there somewhere! This is classic!

Make sure to include a box/sidebar about how to MacGyver a set of sunglass side shields out of duct tape for when you leave your Julbo's at home (or your tentmate sits on them)...

The Denali page has been updated. I'm looking for some pics to splash around on the page to up the "stoked" factor. Anyone have any that aren't already uploaded? I'll upload mine in the next few days, but I'd like to see if anyone else has some photos, charts, etc that would be cool for the page. Thanks.

http://www.summitpost.org/denali-mount-mckinley/150199

I have a bunch! When I get back from Vinson, in PUQ now, I will forward some to you. Scott