clmbr et al:
FYI:
I have only ever practiced on a 2 person team for self arrest and crevasse rescue. Well done some 4, but...
Yes, 2 person teams have to carry more gear. But, hauling the guy out is easy and straight forward just like in 3 or more. Its the exact same except you are the only guy hauling. May need a higher "gear ratio, mechanical advantage, pulley ratio system." In fact I find it easier than with 3 or more as I use my legs instead of like how most are taught and they use their... arms. A half fit person can easily squat double their weight. If in excellent shape 4X or more. When I used to run around in a Greenhouse and nursery all day carrying 40lb sacks of soil(4 at a time) and trees in pots, I could easily squat 4X my body weight at near infinite reps. Now? Uh, well, about 2 and not exactly infinite reps. Been laid up in a bed more than I am out recently. Anyways back to the subject.
If guy in hole is even 1/4 there, hauling out is a cinch as just a little help keeps the wall friction of climber rubbing on it away. If inert you are not hauling out under any circumstances. You may be able to exert enough mechanical advantage to kill them.
[In fact this happened to a girl on Ranier when a large group was doing crevasse rescue training. They ruled the death as asphixiation, as they were hauling her under a roof. No, well sorta, what really happened is that they were hauling so hard on her harness that it rose high enough so her harness pushed into her diaphram so it couldn't push downwards and inflate the lungs.] Of course if inert this would imply that both of you went rocketing down the mountain slope a fair distance in order to generate said impact force necessary to knock the guy in the hole out.
Anyways yes, 1 guy inert, 1 guy downclimbs in and can haul guy out. I have done so and required it of myself before I felt comfortable enough to stand on a glacier in the middle of the coast range of BC on the Franklin/Jubilee/Waddington/etc glaciers.
Is it easy? No. Is it hard? Not really. Aggravating, Yes. Do have to know the steps though.
Send extra rope down. Prussic down. May have to transfer over to other line(probably), drop partners pack onto rope. Choose which line to ascend. Transfer all prussics over. Texas style prussics are BAD for this and in fact probably would make it impossible. Anyways. Someone can argue for Texas style. I will be more than happy to be proved wrong. Long prussic loops with foot loops in bottom goes through chest harness(sling)/and climbing harness. To do this you MUST have the inert climber on the OPPOSITE side of the rope! Otherwise if one does as their first inclination, putting the inert climber on your back, you will find yourself dangling nearly horizontal! THIS WILL NOT WORK! SO, guy is opposite you, inert. Have to step in their prussic, offloading their top prussic. Put your arm around them to pull them in tight to the rope and get maximum distance up of top prussic and to keep them opposite of you! Move central prussic tying said person TO the rope up. Move yours up. Step in top prussic, pull bottom stepping prussic up. Repeat. Improvise at the lip... Bring Ice axe to chop etc. If chopping to be done do it BEFORE raising your partner or at least AFTER you assess your partner Tourniquets, warm clothing, and you don't have that line in major tension with both of you on it and the snow/ice is flying.
Easy? No. Doable? Yes.
Even in the hardest situation, dangling free.
Heck of a lot easier with a wall on one side though.
PS. I am usually the guy arguing for 2 man teams to just GO and learn with BOOK in hand. Its far cheaper than a guide. Gain more experience than in a group as well as you aren't waiting in line for your turn. On the flip side, you have to think all the steps through yourself and can't rely on the guide to quickly swat you upside your head when you are being a bonehead.
PPS. If I had to chose >> Personally, I would rather I climb with someone who has a lot of high angle snow experience rather than someone with crevasse rescue training experience. The likely chance of a 2 person team with 1 person inert in the crevasse and the other fine, is very small to non existent in my opinion. I have never read of such an accident scenario in all the years of reading Accidents in North America. That is going on 25 years now so...
clmbr wrote:BigMitch wrote:. . . I have always found [Excitableboy suggestions] to be the voice of reason on this forum.
Agree!
BigMitch wrote:. . .
I think that it is completely nuts for your husband, whom we assume has not crevasse rescue experience, to attempt such a thing with another climber, who may or may not have crevasse rescue experience.
. . .
If two guys want to make such an attempt, they had better be experts (mere training is not enough) in crevasse rescue for a two-man rope team (not a 3 or 4 man rope team) and they had better be on-top of their physical game.
. . .
However, I just wonder how a person in self arrest position, if succeeded, with one ice ax (extra hummer and a couple of pickets may increase feasibility though) can rescue the other one on the other end of the rope in air and unable to move or moving without control? (Crevasses on Rainier may be up to 600 feet deep.)
Making the illusion that knowing crevasse rescue makes the trip safe is absolutely wrong. The only technique (beside no falling policy) that may prevent from bad consequences of unfavorable outcome is self arrest, not crevasse rescue, especially not in up to two-person team. Even a professional guide died on Rainier being dragged down the crevasse by one of her clients in a multiple-person team.
Mountaineering is a dangerous activity with many variables that may create a deadly situation with not much time to respond. It does not mean that every person attempting the mountain, even without preparation, must get in trouble. But it means that even the best (extremely prepared and experienced) climbers die in the mountains (and not necessary on K2). Understanding this is crucial; the rest is just lowering the odds and enjoying the climb.