SummitPost.org

Scott wrote:

you asked for a mountain name

Wrong; that's not what I asked. Here was the question:

Please show us one expedition to a 7000 meter peak that uses supplemental oxygen for anything but emergency use.

And:

Even on all the guided trips that I know of, they don't use supplemental oxygen. Can you show us one expedition, guided or otherwise that commonly uses it for an 7000 meter peak?

A tourist using oxygen on Mt Fuji is not an expedition, neither is using it at sea level. Further, Everest View Hotel at around 3880 meters also has oxygen available in their rooms. Some ski resorts in Colorado do as well. That is not what is being referred to. People using oxygen on Fuji, in a hospital, at a ski resort, or in a hotel room has nothing to do with Aconcagua or the norms of or "general rules" of mountaineering. Your point is that because someone uses it on Fuji, it is a required above 7000 meters and everyone who disagrees with you is attacked and is somehow claiming that no one should ever use oxygen? The truth is that it is actually extremely rare to use for non emergency use on expeditions (even if it is for a beginner climber on a fully guided expedition), except when climbing 8000 meter peaks and only on 8000 meter peaks is it common or normal to use on an expedition. Emergency use is different. It is used for emergencies on many mountains, including Aconcagua (which should be the topic here). As mentioned, some people have used it to climb even Denali, but it isn't common, the norm, or a general rule.

Messner climbed all 14 without artificial oxygen, do you mean every hiker should do so as well?

No one said that.

The only thing that anyone has disagreed with is that most people use it for a 7000 peak or that it is required. Most people do not. It is actually extremely rare that they do. A few people on Mt Fuji is not the norm.

The other disagreement was that you recommend medications to Here is the thing, people experience different level of effect above 3000m, some need medication to proceed, and that it is a basic guide to use it at 3000 meters.

That is is a basic guide or the norm for 3000 meters is not true, but you can't seem to comprehend this.

No one here on this thread has said that you can't or shouldn't use medications, but you that a climber should never use medications to ascend higher if you aren't feeling well or aren't acclimatized and that they must be cautiously. Medications can help you, but you actually have to be careful using medications for many reasons such as they mask symptoms (one reason that it is officially banned on Aconcagua, but rarely enforced).

No one on this thread has said not to use oxygen (that's a completely different topic). They just said that it was almost never used to climb 7000 meter peaks. No one has said never to use medications. They just said that it wasn't the norm at 3000 meters and that acclimatization is more important and that there were side effects to be aware of. You and only you are providing bad/inaccurate information and trying to twist it into an ethics conversation by trying to claim that others say never to use oxygen or use medications. No one has said that on this thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS, be aware that you are treading on thin ice when resorting to name calling, throwing a fit when someone calls you out on something, mucking up threads on the forum, and providing little or no useful information, and that you can be deleted for doing so.

Of course I also believe in second and even third chances. Please use them wisely.

I would never delete someone for simply disagreeing, or for having a different opinion, but if you have no submissions to SP and are just here to name call and muck up threads on the forum, it does get old.

Because you seems to choose to ignore name calling on me simply based on the ground that i dont agree with you.

The fact i am stressing on is the use of medication helps and it is more important to use it as preventive rather than remedy.

PS: you choose to mention regarding mount fuji and said that it is not a norm. then i wonder what do you call as a norm?

Scott wrote:

Because you seems to choose to ignore name calling on me simply based on the ground that i dont agree with you.

This is name calling:

Simply some people are just too lazy to think.

Just a simple note for reminder in case somebody never learn to read properly.

You are allowed to disagree with anyone you want or to have any opinion that you want. Having a right to express an opinion though doesn't mean that you are free from criticism if you say something that you don't agree with it, nor does it mean that you are free to call people names when they point out an error.

The fact i am stressing on is the use of medication helps and it is more important to use it as preventive rather than remedy.

Although I agree that it can help, but I will also that it can also mask symptoms and has side effects (which don't affect everyone) and that acclimatization is more important. You seem to claim that medication is just as important (or even more so) as acclimatization, at least that's what it sounds like; You probably going to hear a lot of people telling you that it is not important for the medication, proper acclamatization is the key. The thing is, they know too little about altitude sickness.

You still haven't stated which mountains you have climbed.

PS: you choose to mention regarding mount fuji and said that it is not a norm. then i wonder what do you call as a norm?

A norm or general rule in your own word is what most people do on expeditions. For example, stating above 7000m, one would require artificial oxygen implies that everyone would need it above 7000 meters. As mentioned many times, expeditions using oxygen at 7000 meters is extremely rare (even on fully guided expeditions).

btw cabin altitude is around 2000m for most commercial planes though, 2100m for boeing 767, 1800m for boeing 787, the below regulations are set at 8000ft, thats around 2400m by law.

They know more than you, who have shown yourself to be dangerously ignorant and arrogantly presumptuous.
This reply by 'ibelieveindevil' is one of the worst advice posts I have ever seen on Summitpost.

I mentioned repeatedly, but you just choose to ignore despite several reminders, that i never say acclimatization is not important.

you are correct that i believe medication is just as important

Back to the 7000m and 8000m debate again: why 8000m? probably because everyone call it deathzone. the thing is, thats something coined in 1953, and proven to be medically inaccurate by today standard. many modern reclassification make it at 7500m.

Bob Sihler wrote: I'm not sure if he's trolling, but people are definitely feeding him...

radson wrote:Mate, you have 9 months, heaps of time. I personally don't think you would get any extra value from employing 'western' guides. The argentinians have the place totally dialled in. I must admit I went straight to Aconcagua after 5 weeks in Nepal and it helped me greatly but not in terms of acclimatisation, more just being hike/climb fit.

I am still a bit flummoxed as to why you think Aconcagua is such a big step up, considering your HA experience.

Sunny Buns wrote:Where do you live?

If you are in the US, just go to a high town in Colorado like Leadville or Telluride and spend a week or 2 camping out and climbing easy hills.

Which route do you want to take on Aconcagua? I've only done the normal route, and I only made it to Nido (18K) but I can tell you that getting that far is very easy. Nothing steep to that point. Stay 4-5 nights in basecamp (14.5K) before moving up to Canada (16K), then an easy stroll up to Nido at 18K. Unfortunately I can't tell you how it is above Nido, but if you WANT to do it bad enough you'll do fine.

The key is persistence in the face of tent partners you don't get along with, crappy camping conditions, shitty weather, etc. Those who WANT it will make the summit - the rest turn around; that is assuming you don't get sick from altitude, etc.

Go ahead and sign up with the company that looks good to you; prepare and have a nice adventure! Then write a trip report (with your photo by that aluminum cross) that will make us all jealous!!!! :0