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Preferred rappell knot

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Preferred rappell knot

Postby WyomingSummits » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:19 am

I know this can be a hotly debated topic, but what is everyone's favorite rap knot? Euro Death, square double fish, figure 8 double fish, etc? Mine is the Square double fisherman.....never had much in the way of snagging issues and it's a breeze to untie. With rap knots it's best to stick with what you're familiar with and I started with this one at the age of nine!
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Ben Beckerich » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:31 am

EDK, sometimes backed up.

I've done others when it's a completely free-hanging rap down a slab/otherwise clean face, but the EDK works fine, so I usually don't bother. Square backed up with fishermans is a bomber, but still easy to release bend.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby WyomingSummits » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:38 am

Ben Beckerich wrote:EDK, sometimes backed up.

I've done others when it's a completely free-hanging rap down a slab/otherwise clean face, but the EDK works fine, so I usually don't bother. Square backed up with fishermans is a bomber, but still easy to release bend.

What do you back it up with? Surprising the answers people have given me on this one. Double overhand, barrel, single overhand....list goes on. Surprisingly, on many of my east coast climbs where there tends to be more protruding vegetation, the EDK seemed to hang up a bit more.....maybe due to the V that forms.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Ben Beckerich » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:51 am

I usually make the determination based on what I'm seeing in the rope's path and whether the ropes are same or different diameter. If same diameter, I think I usually just to EDK and forgo any backup regardless, but if it's different diameter AND there's really nothing to get hung up on except a ledge edge or two, I'll do EDK and back up with a stopper (I think what others are referring to when they say fisherman's). Otherwise, I'll just do another overhand above the EDK
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Matt Lemke » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:21 am

EDK...sometimes re-woven figure-8
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby ExcitableBoy » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:22 pm

EDK, always. With long tails, backed up with a second EDK sometimes.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:00 pm

Figure 8 is easier to undo than EDK. So, main knot is fig 8. Backed up by EDK.

Different sized ropes, really depends on HOW different they are, then use double fishermens.

If doing a double person rappel, then I will use a double fish as it is easier to undo than fig 8. Though even this is rare as if doing double raps, we are pressed for time, and fig 8 is vastly faster to tie than double fish.

On multiple raps, those knots get set REALLY hard. EDK can get next to impossible to undo. Never do double person rappel on EDK unless you wish to cut the lat 5 feet of rope off. Ok, slight exaggeration, but honestly not by much. Spent over 20 minutes trying to undo an EDK after double person rap. After that I swore, "NEVER AGAIN!" Death to EDK! Long live Fig 8 and Dbl Fishermans.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Scott » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:24 pm

EDK always. If you pull the knot over a corner, the knot turns and always faces out, thus no extra wear on the rope. It's the least likely knot to snag as well.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:36 pm

Scott wrote:EDK always. If you pull the knot over a corner, the knot turns and always faces out, thus no extra wear on the rope. It's the least likely knot to snag as well.

fig 8 does the exact same and is easier to untie.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Ben Beckerich » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Wastral... I'm not sure you know what an EDK is, if you think it's hard to untie.... it's probably the single easiest to release bend there is, especially after repeated loading, compared to others.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Scott » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:20 pm

fig 8 does the exact same


Um, no; it does not.

How can you pull a figure 8 knot over a corner and not have the knot touch the wall? It's physically impossible.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:54 pm

Ben Beckerich wrote:Wastral... I'm not sure you know what an EDK is, if you think it's hard to untie.... it's probably the single easiest to release bend there is, especially after repeated loading, compared to others.


... wonders if you have ever been climbing before...

EDK, aka overhand knot is the single hardest bend to release. Everything is easier than the EDK. Have you ever tied anything OTHER than an EDK? The answer is obviously, "NO"
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:00 pm

Scott wrote:
fig 8 does the exact same


Um, no; it does not.

How can you pull a figure 8 knot over a corner and not have the knot touch the wall? It's physically impossible.


It would appear you have never done so. Try it and watch. fig 8 is nothing but a "fancy" EDK with an extra loop. The tension legs enter the knot exactly, perfect match for, the EDK. It flips out just like EDK. It doesn't get stuck, wedged in, because it flips upright and has no flat face, just like EDK.

ANyways, if you get into double person rappels where twice the burden is on the ropes, you will really wish you had used a fig 8 instead of EDK.

EDK is perfectly acceptable, but harder to get apart than fig 8.
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:14 pm

Yes, if the knot is tied poorly, the fig 8 is worse than a poorly tied EDK...
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Re: Preferred rappell knot

Postby Wastral » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:16 pm

If doing lots of rappels, DFK is usually what I Will go for and simply pre pull the knot over the edge first.
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