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2 jumars with grigri backup?

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2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby Dandelion » Thu May 15, 2014 12:32 am

I have found lots of info on jugging with two ascenders and jugging with one ascender and one grigri. However, I can't seem to find any video demos or illustrations on how to use two ascenders/jumars with a grigri backup. It is just simply mentioned in some articles with little detail. This is the system I am more interested in using and I'd like some further info on the setup.

Links and/or explanations appreciated :-)
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby fatdad » Thu May 15, 2014 3:30 am

Why would you need 2 ascenders AND a grigri backup? Now you're sliding 3 separate devices up a rope? Not very efficient. Sure you have a backup for your ascenders, like a back up knot, but you don't need to monkey with that everytime you move.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby sharperblue » Thu May 15, 2014 4:06 am

one of each is really only good for froggin' short distances; too exhausting otherwise. Two jumars and the grigri are the way to go if you want a secure back-up if you un-clip accidentally, and yes is a bit of a pain, but nice security: just attach the grigri to your belay loop and let the rope slide through the grigri as you ascend; lower down, you'll have to stop and manually pull it through every now and then, but as you get higher, the weight of the rope will allow you to slide up past the cam with minimal effort. the olde fashioned version is to tie a back-up knot every 20-30 feet below you
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Thu May 15, 2014 4:22 am

^^^^

but what happens if your traversing and yer jumars get detached and you have only ONE grigri as a backup????????

what if it fails?



it is always prudent to have at least one more grigri backing up that grigri...maybe even 2 or 3 or 4 more grigris!!!!!!!!!!!!!


.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby sharperblue » Thu May 15, 2014 4:51 am

i think the point is about mental security as much as physical security darlings; we all have our own thresholds. have a read through accident reports and you'll find a few un-clipped jumars killing people
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Thu May 15, 2014 7:40 am

a long time ago when my climbing partner first looked at a grigri--at a trad crag--he commented, "if you don't know how to belay then you shouldn't be climbing"


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Last edited by jesu, joy of man's desiring on Fri May 16, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby fatdad » Thu May 15, 2014 6:03 pm

I don't understand the comment that using two jumars and a grigri is OK, but using one jumar and a grigri is "exhausting".

To the OP, I supposed it depends really on what you plan on doing. If you are just jumaring a single pitch (say, because you can't follow it), all three would be fine. However, if you're doing multiple pitches then you need to consider efficiency, not just whether running of a clusterf@#$ of devices is going to make you feel more comfortable. Do what's safe. If there's an objective standard of what works well, do that. Don't confuse yourself with too much gear, processes, etc., but you're nervous. Too much going on with your system means that there is something that is going to be overlooked, forgotten, done incorrectly, etc. Practice on something small and see what works for you. That's the place to see what works. You don't want to be doing it for the first time way off the ground.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby MoapaPk » Fri May 16, 2014 1:06 am

What the heck are you doing?
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby divnamite » Fri May 16, 2014 7:16 pm

The only time I would use two jugs and a grigri is cleaning a traverse. Once the traverse is done, I would put gri gri away.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Fri May 16, 2014 8:02 pm

-

chris McNamara compares jugging with backup knots versus a grigri backup

vvvvv




.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby logsden » Sat May 17, 2014 3:25 pm

fatdad,
I don't understand the comment that using two jumars and a grigri is OK, but using one jumar and a grigri is "exhausting".


the single ascender and a grigri setup is a completely different rig than a typical two ascender setup. Usually it's set up as a 3:1 pulley and you are effectively hauling yourself up rather than simply standing in a pair of aiders and "walking" up the wall. it is useful in some scenarios but usually I still just prefer a standard setup.

edit: here's the basic idea…

Image
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby logsden » Sat May 17, 2014 9:32 pm

To the OP: I use both a grigri back-up and backup knots. Both setups are easy to use. I think tying knots is a little simpler overall and actually quicker with less potential for cluster****ing up or having weird issues like the grigri sometimes self feeding and sometimes not.

ymmv but they are both valid solutions.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby huwj » Thu May 29, 2014 11:34 am

Tried both setups. Two jumars and a backup clove hitch to a locker is my favourite. As previous dude said, less cluster and just as quick...
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby Vitaliy M. » Thu May 29, 2014 7:07 pm

2 jumars and back up knot every 40-50 ft is the way to go. Throw in a biner to lock your rope in on the bottom jumar - I take the higher jumar for passing pieces when the line traverses at times. You do not need 2 jumars and a grigri back up.
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Re: 2 jumars with grigri backup?

Postby Marcsoltan » Thu May 29, 2014 11:50 pm

There are more than one way to skin a cat, but I think the easiest is the best. 2 jumars and a back up knot, every 30+ feet, works great. On the traversing pitches back up knot every 5 or 10 feet depending on how severe the traverse is the way to go.
The video posted by Jesu, joy of man's desiring explains it plain and simple.
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