What Winter Boot to Choose!

[Biscut]

What boot would you choose based upon the following activity:

Many a long day in Jan/Feb White Mountains NH (thinks presidentials and cold!) with an overnite or 2 each year.

Winter on the CO 14kers mainly a 2 day event.

I am trying to decide between a double boot like the Nepal Qube but wonder if they will be warm enough. And Spantik for double boot. The Artic Exped are another choice as their price point is pretty low (comparatively) especially if I am able to find a barely used pair at IME North Conway.

Any advice well appreciated.

[beean]

Overnighters in winter leads me to think you need a double boot. Spantiks are the go-to double these days, so that'd be a good choice.

[JHH60]

What are you using the boots for? Hiking/snow climbing with crampons? Technical ice climbing? Do you tend to run cold or warm? I used to use old skool single leather mountaineering boots in the winter in New England (not as warm as Nepals) and was OK down to maybe -10F if I kept moving but wouldn't have wanted to bivy overnight in them. I now use Nepal Evos in the Sierra for winter snow travel and ice climbing and they keep my feet warm down to at least 10F, including when I am standing around belaying. I've only climbed in Colorado in summer but if you search the forum you can find discussions of boots for winter in CO (consensus seems to be that Nepals or equivalents are adequate). I have a pair of plastic boots but I hardly ever use them now that I have the Nepals.

Single boots like Nepals will be lighter, lower profile, and more nimble for climbing, than doubles, especially if you get plastics like the Arctis Expe. Doubles will be warmer and easier to keep dry on multiday trips since you can put the liner in your sleeping bag (you can do this with single boots too, it's just less convenient). There are single boots with integrated gaitors, such as the LS Batura and Scarpa Phantom Guide, which are warmer than singles but lighter and climb better than doubles.

Don't fixate on a particular manufacturer or models until you have tried them on your feet. Manufacturers other than La Sportiva make good mountaineering boots and they may fit your feet better than what Sportiva offers.

[ExcitableBoy]

There are single boots with integrated gaitors, such as the LS Batura and Scarpa Phantom Guide, which are warmer than singles but lighter and climb better than doubles.

I thought the modern '6000 meter' boots like LS Batura or Scarpa Phantom had removable inner booties and a plastic/synthehic shell. Are they not double boots (or triple with the integrated gaitors) ?

[JHH60]

There are single boots with integrated gaitors, such as the LS Batura and Scarpa Phantom Guide, which are warmer than singles but lighter and climb better than doubles.

I thought the modern '6000 meter' boots like LS Batura or Scarpa Phantom had removable inner booties and a plastic/synthehic shell. Are they not double boots (or triple with the integrated gaitors) ?

I think you are thinking of the LS Baruntse and Scarpa Phantom 6000 which are double boots. The Batura is a single synthetic boot with an integrated gaiter (I've climbed with someone who had them so have seen them firsthand). My understanding from the online reviews and marketing literature is that the Phantom Guide is similar to the Batura though I haven't actually seen or touched one myself.

[Fintft]

People were right about the single Salewa pro guide boots, they seem pretty stiff trying them around the house even in "walk" mode...

http://www.backcountry.com/salewa-pro-g ... -boot-mens

I had no place to try them and rushed to get the last pair at $330.

No way I'd like to hike up Parinacota (one day hike at 6K in Bolivia) in those, except maybe for the 100m of snow; maybe I'll carry my Garmont leather boots as well?

And I'm supposed to break the Salewa mountaineering boots (that the American Alpine Institute deemed the best) in as much before, to be able to do some hikes in them? I'm not sure I'll manage...

Meanwhile, I'' try to break them in (like people said), but only after I take them into a mountaineering store in order to fit those Grivel Airmatic crampons on them... (In case I need to return said boots).

Never had mountaineering boots before, didn't imagine they'd be as stiff as sky boots...

That's probably why people climbed Parinacota in leather boots...

BTW I also bought, not only toes (and fingers), but also "sole" warmers; did you guys use those?

Anyhow, you guyas probably done tons of climbing before, as opposed to me, who I only hike...

Happy 2015!

[Fintft]

Search function for crampons didn't work for me at work so here is another question about crampons on say Parinacota, which I understood is only 30 degrees with no exposure...Which would be good since I'm just a hiker and only starting this.

Unfortunately I, like some of those guys (on Ultimate Alaska competion show on Discovery channel) have no experience with rope and ice climbing (except for one hour hiking in micro spike on a trail in Adirondacks)....

Do you think I should still attempt Parinacota?  Considering that I’m 54 and just starting…

Unlike the military guy, I’ll wear crampons though!

Speaking of which took my boots in store today and:

a) Didn’t like the light air matic b/c they are not “step in” and as such are secured only with the belt.
http://www.mec.ca/product/5013-200/griv ... ic-crampon
s/?Ntk=productsearch_en_q32008&Ns=p_min_sale_price&h=10&q=grivel%2Bcrampons

b) Tried some step in Black Diamond Sabretooth SS Pro (at $177) that looked great (except for the “SS” name like in Germany WWII):

http://www.mec.ca/product/5019-423/blac ... -crampons/
?h=10+50001+50019+50283&f=10+50001+50285


Was told to order these step in ones, but I’m not so sure (they were not on display, but aren’t these the ones you didn’t recommend?!!!):

http://www.mec.ca/product/5002-929/griv ... ith-antibo
tts/?Ntk=productsearch_en_q32008&Ns=p_min_sale_price&h=10&q=grivel%2Bcrampon
s

Now they might have had the labes mixed up, b/c I think that I’ve actually tried something similar to these ones Grivel Haute Route Ski Matic Crampons:

http://www.mec.ca/product/5018-621/griv ... ampons/?Nt
k=productsearch_en_q32008&Ns=p_min_sale_price&h=10&q=grivel%2Bcrampons

Except those not only have only 10 points, they are also apparently not good/unstable due to short front teeth 

So I may end up getting the in Black Diamond Sabretooth SS Pro

Some people are saying that these are some of the best all around crampons:

https://climbinggearreviewsuk.wordpress ... nd-sabreto
oth-stainless-crampons-climbing-gear-review/

http://www.sierradescents.com/reviews/b ... tooth.html

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/bl ... ro-crampon

They also have a clip version with a welt only on the heel:

http://www.mec.ca/product/5019-424/blac ... p-crampons
/?Ns=p_min_sale_price&h=10+50001+50019+50283+50285&f=10+50001+50285

But I’d take the pro version unless you find it bad please advise again?


Bought a harness (Petzl), couldn’t find a helmet that would fit lol the 61.5 cm was sitting kinda tall and Iooked like Fred Flinstone or worse 
Couldn’t even find a skying helmet to fit, may end up carrying my biking helmet with me, unless I can get one online.

The simple axe, had a look at a 60 cm Black Diamond, but will probably end up buy a longer one like 73cm or 80, heavier, but seems to be more suited to climb that 30 degree Parinacota…

Any advise would be appreciated,
Cheers!

[ExcitableBoy]

FWIW, the universal binding system that the Grivel Air Tech Light uses is perfectly secure and easy to use and has the ability to fit a variety of boots from running shoes to ski boots. Fully automatic binders AKA 'step in' (wire bail in front, lever in back) are somewhat finicky to fit to boots; not all crampons fit all boots. Also, as the your boots wear the bails fit less securely so you may end up having to replace the boots prematurely simply because your crampons no longer fit securely. I had a partner on an alpine ice climbing trip who had a devil of a time keeping her crampons on due to this issue. The 'newmatic' style (plastic basket in front, lever in back) fits a wider variety of boots and are plenty secure. I highly recommend these.

I have a pair of Grivel Air Tech light crampons, but I would not recommend them for general mountaineering use as the down facing points are very short which causes problems under certain snow/ice conditions. Also, you may want to do some research on the Black Diamond stainless steel crampons as they are known for breaking http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/02 ... nless.html http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/08 ... ss-or.html. Grivel G-12s are a very solid choice and have a great reliability record http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/crampons/5-g12. You can't go wrong with these and for your purposes seem to me to be a better choice than any you have listed.

As for ice axe length, you do not want a long axe. They are not hiking sticks, they are intended for steep terrain. A long axe is terribly uncomfortable to lift high enough to plunge on slopes > 20 degrees. If you are < 5'11 a 60 cm is the right length. If you are > 5'11 a 65 cm might be a better fit, but do not get anything longer unless you are 7 feet tall.

[Fintft]

Well I'm 6'2" thanks, you still saying 65 cm? Anyhow the next one my local store has I think it's 73cm.

I wanted to buy the Grivel G-12s, but I got turned off seeing that it was the belt that held them in place: the step in seemed more secure, but now you bring out the risk of the boot getting prematurely used...
Have to think about it, may not use neither the boots, nor the crampons much, so....

Thanks!

[ExcitableBoy]

Well I'm 6'2" thanks, you still saying 65 cm? Anyhow the next one my local store has I think it's 73cm.

Yes, 65 cm. If your local store does not carry the correct length, you can order one on the internets.

I wanted to buy the Grivel G-12s, but I got turned off seeing that it was the belt that held them in place: the step in seemed more secure, but now you bring out the risk of the boot getting prematurely used...

The newmatic and universal bindings are not less secure than the fully auto/step ins. The step ins are favored for ice climbing and technical alpine climbing because they can offer a more precise fit, allowing less slop, but as I mentioned getting a good fit is not guaranteed. I have seen many more problems with step in bindings than newmatic or universal bindings. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01 ... n-fit.html.

[Fintft]

I did measure my self (from holding the ice to the ankle as per REI instructions, I think) and it looks like 73-75 cms (something that a local vendor recommended here as well)...Still on the fence about that one, bc I'll probably go only 30 degrees up in snow on Parinacota and also b/c the taller axe might help more on descending (which is a problem for me due to knee and back past injuries).

As for crampons, I'm leaning to take your guys advise and forget about the step-ins (although I don't fancy the idea having to replace the straps in time for newmatic types) and also towards Petzl, either Sarken, Vasek, or even Lynx (they give you two front toes (both step in and webbing):



http://www.summitpost.org/outdoor-gear/sarken/1061

http://www.mec.ca/product/5025-349/petz ... /?q=sarken

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/P ... _addtocart

The Lynx have some advantages and seem to have similar teeth to Sarken:

The front toe bail for these, or any, crampons sold by MEC is not a separately sold piece. These Petzl Lynx crampons are meant for a boot with both a front and rear welt area to accept this type of crampon. The other front toe bails meant for boots with no front welt have a plastic or webbing strap system that covers the toe area of your boot and are not interchangeable between crampons.

Better/longer straps for the ankle and easy/cheaper to replace the front teeth:

http://www.mec.ca/product/5027-138/petz ... ns/?q=lynx

http://coldthistle.blogspot.ca/2011/11/ ... -duex.html

"The Lynx is lighter than a pair of stainless Cyborgs but the added coverage under foot is beginning to rival the older crampons (several generations back) and duplicates or slightly betters the the G12 for instance and betters by a huge margin the Dart, Dartwin, G20/G22 or the Sabertooth. The difference is a huge increase of security with this crampon on moderate terrain. Something everyone should be cheering even with the marginal added weight gain."

Update:

After bugging more people I'm leaning now towards Grivel G12 (newmatic probably), followed Petzl Vasak or by BD Sabertooth:

Sorry to keep bugging you all lol, but this is so complicated and probably subjective:

Now some people like the Grivel G12s for going downhill in snow a lot more then the Vasaks (and going downhill has always been my weakness when...hiking):

http://www.mountaingear.com/webstore/Ge ... 111816.htm

http://www.backcountry.com/grivel-g12-n ... ic-crampon

http://coldthistle.blogspot.ca/search?q=g12

Also the high back strap won't come off as easily as the low Petzl back strap

While some others say the the latest version of G12 have shorter front teeth then the Air tech (but then again Air tech won't fit a boot size 11 as my store confirmed)

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/vi ... f=9&t=3545

Overall I might just order the G12 newmatic(probably) from Moosejaw, using partly reward points...
http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/p ... #addtocart

But, first, tomorrow I'll go and try the Vasaks on my boots anyhow (the sales person doesn't believe that the stainless steel front points on ND Sabertooh are weak, he's been using Cyborgs).

I can hardly wait to get my hands on some (probably G12s) and try them this winter in the Adirondacks before going to Bolivia in the Andes for the first time climb.

Thanks again,
Marian





Thanks!