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what do you do for recovery?

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what do you do for recovery?

Postby skyward22 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:00 pm

Just wondering what people do out there to recover from alpine climbs?
I find that when I'm out climbing an alpine route in say, Rocky Mountain National Park with a 3-4 mile approach and 1000ft of climbing--be it ice, snow, or rock---that I'm strong on the approach and climb, and a little tired on the descent, but very very worn out the next day. I'm getting out about once a week but even when I was getting out more, I was stronger in the mountains, but didn't recover as well.
What can I do pre-climb, during the climb, or immediately after to enhance recovery? I can't afford to sleep all day if I climb all day the day before--I'm in medical school, so that just won't work!
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Re: what do you do for recovery?

Postby CClaude » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:03 pm

tobe945 wrote:Just wondering what people do out there to recover from alpine climbs?
I find that when I'm out climbing an alpine route in say, Rocky Mountain National Park with a 3-4 mile approach and 1000ft of climbing--be it ice, snow, or rock---that I'm strong on the approach and climb, and a little tired on the descent, but very very worn out the next day. I'm getting out about once a week but even when I was getting out more, I was stronger in the mountains, but didn't recover as well.
What can I do pre-climb, during the climb, or immediately after to enhance recovery? I can't afford to sleep all day if I climb all day the day before--I'm in medical school, so that just won't work!


The hot tub on my deck and a glass of red wine :P and if I know its going to be a really hard day (week,.....) of climbing then I schedule an appt with a massuese :D
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Postby Luciano136 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm

I try to drink (i.e. water) as much as possible the night of a hard day since I sleep like crap if I'm dehydrated. I typically also run the humidifier in the room, which improves my sleep as well. Since I have to work, I generally don't have much of a choice but to get up and go to work. It's often painful but I once again drink a lot of water that day. By day 2 or 3, I'm typically back to normal.
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Postby fatdad » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:18 pm

Are you worn out or sore? If you're worn out, I'd say it's probably one of two things: you're not training enough to make a long day in the mountains feel easier or you're worn out from whatever you're doing during the week.

To the extent it's possible, I'd try the following: find additional time to train during the week, get more rest and get some better nutrition during your climbs so you don't bonk as hard.
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Postby skyward22 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:02 pm

fatdad wrote:Are you worn out or sore? If you're worn out, I'd say it's probably one of two things: you're not training enough to make a long day in the mountains feel easier or you're worn out from whatever you're doing during the week.

To the extent it's possible, I'd try the following: find additional time to train during the week, get more rest and get some better nutrition during your climbs so you don't bonk as hard.


I'm usually a little sore, but I would say its definitely a feeling of being worn out. Which doesn't make sense because before when I was getting out more often and was working part-time (22 hours/week), I still bonked after big climbs. That is in contrast to now whereas I'm still bonking and have to put in about 70-80 hours a week for med school.
Should I try nutritional supplements? Protein Drinks after?
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Postby CClaude » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:17 pm

you're a med student.... whats your opinion on protein supplements. I figure they are a waste of money which you just end up pissing out anyways, and end up putting extra stress on the kidneys and liver.

There has been some work suggesting carbs coupled with protein after a workout improves recovery.... but the ideal would be a bagel with peanut butter on it.

Nutritional Supplements..... I figure by in large (except for Glucosamine, Echinesia, and a few other things that have been proven in double blinded clinical studies) that they are a waste of money.

As Fatdad says,.... get the workouts in. The less time you have, the more important they become to make sure that your trips go well.
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Postby bird » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:48 pm

tobe945 wrote:That is in contrast to now whereas I'm still bonking and have to put in about 70-80 hours a week for med school.

Gee, working 80hrs a week, then hitting the mountains every weekend and you wonder why you are tired?
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Postby Kiefer » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:49 pm

Being in med school, I have to say, I'm a bit surprised that you'd even ask this question for self-information vs. sheer curiosity. You do after all, have access to health information that most of us don't and have the [increasing] capacity to understand it! 8)

You know, I also drink protein drinks on the way home and make sure to re-hydrate myself sufficiently on the drive. But absolutely NO SOFT DRINKS.
Recently, from an attempt on Capitol Peak over by Snowmass, on the drive home, we stopped by City Mkt. in Carbondale and I picked up two of those Xing Tea's, a bottle of Super Protein from Odwalla and a cup of coffee.
I had half a can of tea left once I got home.
I'll echo what a few others have said. Proper re-hydration I think is a key factor.

Another, and I think this one actually takes a lot of time & repeated useage is proper muscle type.
I won't explain muscle fibers, fast-twitch/slow-twitch etc. b/c you prolly know that already but what if someone is used to long approaches (4-8miles) and long climbs (4,000+ft) and performs this behaviour on a weekly basis for YEARS? I honestly believe, that individual has at some point, physically changed the myofibril composition in his skeletal muscles and his/her body has corespondingly changed the physiology of the attending metabolism.
Try putting a weight-lifter on the Kokopelli Trail and see how he's doing after mile 18. Or an ultra-runner on the Military Press or day 3 on Crossfit. He's gonna look like Bill the Cat.

Personally, I think this helps to explain why some people simply don't crash like a lot of others do. I could be wrong but it's just my opinion & observation.
What are your thoughts on this?
How often are you able to get out?

I usually try to eat something fatty or high carbs as well but not a lot. Whatever I do eat, I'm sure it won't end up as adipose...at least not in small amounts & immediately after a long haul.
Personally, I started out as an avid trail-runner years ago and slowly moved into hiking and eventually climbing. But it's typically nothing for me to put in 12 miles or so with 4,000-5,000ft of elevation gain and feel fine the next day.
Although earlier this year, we put in 18.1 miles & 8,010-v-ft. in one day.
My legs were wobbly the next morning. :D

I suppose when it comes down to it, I believe there's only so much one can do extrinsically to ease the pain and recovery. Most of it I think lies inside the body in terms of muscle type, training and metabolic efficiently.
Hell, who knows? A good bottle of Guinness makes everything better! :P
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Postby fossana » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:11 am

Are you eating and hydrating enough before/during the climb?
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Postby Luciano136 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:23 am

I think you partly answered your own question. If you work 70-80h a week and then beat yourself up in the mountains on the weekend, you will be exhausted the day after. Everyone's different but your body needs rest.

Next to hydration, being in better shape will help too but to do that, you need more time, which is a problem for you. I've been able to keep in pretty good shape just by adding one bike night a week; it only takes me 1 to 1.5h but it has made a difference. I've been keeping this up since February '09.
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Re: what do you do for recovery?

Postby justing » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:36 am

tobe945 wrote:Just wondering what people do out there to recover from alpine climbs?


Image
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Postby Bignick » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:55 am

I'm old, I'm slow, I smoked cigarettes for 35 years, I have coronary artery disease, and I can't run more than a couple of hundred feet. I can, however, do a 4000+ hike and climb up to over 11550' and cover 8 to 11 miles distance and not feel like I did anything out of the ordinary the next day. I have done 3000' hikes over 6-7 miles, then later in the day walked 3 miles with my wife.

Pace yourself, drink a lot of water, walk or hike several miles at a time and do it often, preferably up hill. You will get there.
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Re: what do you do for recovery?

Postby mconnell » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:41 am

justing wrote:
tobe945 wrote:Just wondering what people do out there to recover from alpine climbs?


Image


I take the same approach. It's all about replacing the carbs burned off during the climb.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!
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Postby KBurnett » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:51 pm

2X what Fossana said. If you are not eating and drinking enough before and during your climb (I know, easier said than done) you will have a very hard time consuming enough post climb to recover quickly.

Make sure you have foods that are easy to eat and digest. And don't forget to pack them in an accessable location. Too often it's easier to just push on than remove the pack and rummage around for food - especially toward the end of long days out when you are tired and just wanting to get back to the car. You'll need lots of carbs of course, but don't forget the fat for outtings lasting longer than 4 hours.

Set your watch to beep or come up with some other way to remind yourself to eat at regular intervals and start early. I'm taking small drinks every 15 to 30 min and eating something every hour from the start - thus the need for easily accessable stuff you can eat without stopping.
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Postby brandon » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:40 pm

Are you aware of your heartrate while you climb, or do you use a perceived level of stress type biofeedback?

I've found my level of fatigue the next day is directly related to my average level of effort rather than the length of that effort.

For example, I could go climb the Loft to Keplingers, going a resonable pace, for me avg HR during effort (minus rests) of 145. Takes about 12 hours RT, and feel good to go the next day.

I could do a shorter day, say 6 hours RT, with an Avg HR during effort of say 155, and be worked for 2 days afterwards.

For one, it's easier to eat and stay hydrated with a lower effort level. Second, I don't bump up against my Anaerobic threshhold.

If you're not digging the technical stuff, I'm just saying try out going 10 to 20% slower and see if you don't experience significantly reduced fatigue syptoms.
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