What have you given up for climbing?

Post general questions and discuss issues related to climbing.
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Joe White

 
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Joe White » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:21 am

mattski wrote:
this seems sad matt....are you content with this?



not at the moment, i need a couple of days off climbing might go fishing


I hear ya brotha. Enjoy!

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Guyzo

 
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Guyzo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:04 am

The Chief wrote:Guy, aren't you just full of good tidings and judgement tonight.

My dearest apologies for making you sick and not fulfilling your expectations of how a climber should behave. Guess I just aint a "real climber".

Seems I have read this somewhere else on this site in the past.... unfkingbelievble.

Done.


Please don't get me wrong Rick, you sir are a real climber.

So please go back and read just what I wrote.

I figgured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by The Chief » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:17 am

Guy...

This entire thread is one of individual opinions.

Myself, I have based my entire life, including my climbing, on what I believe is right, regardless of what you or anyone else on this planet may think. And I can handle far more than you or anyone else may think or expect me too, trust me.

There are many out there that detest me, my persona and my attitude etc. And then there are those that believe the opposite.

I care none the less of either in allowing them to affect my direction or path. And I ain't gonna change that mindset tonight.

There is only one dude I look into the eyes of each night in the mirror before I go to bed....

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Daria

 
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Daria » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:26 am

The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

This raises another interesting question: are enough of the needs specific to climbers satisfied to a suitable extent by virtue of participating in outdoor/climbing activities-since many other interests and needs start falling away or become vehicles for furthering our climbing goals--social needs, career, family, domestic, monetary, etc.

What needs then, does climbing satisfy? If we make a list of these "needs", we may find that other non-climbing individuals (especially drug addicts?) in our world will most likely produce a similar, perhaps identical list of "needs." Or perhaps the climbing produces more, and novel "needs", or climbing satisfies different, newfound needs? And by "needs", I am more referring to psychological rather than more tangible needs.
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Daria

 
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Daria » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:37 am

mattski wrote:thats pritty heavy daria true thow /Its like some thing out of a text book/


my brain is heavily trained by philosophical inquiry, which means I can decipher small, but important details in how we use language in argument and in communication with each other. And some people say philosophy is the most worthless major!
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by mvs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:47 am

Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

...


Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.

What I meant to do was something like this:

#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?

I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Charles » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:55 am

mvs wrote:
Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

...


Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.

What I meant to do was something like this:

#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?

I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.

I´m glad you´ve improved on the "sacrifice" bit, Mike - I can relate in a more positive way to your train of thought. As for you being "dishonest", I can only write - don´t be so bloody dishonest about you being dishonest! :D :wink:
Now I´ll think about what it´s meant and done for me - climbing and mountains that is.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by The Chief » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:53 pm

charles wrote:
mvs wrote:
Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

...


Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.

What I meant to do was something like this:

#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?

I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.

I´m glad you´ve improved on the "sacrifice" bit, Mike - I can relate in a more positive way to your train of thought. As for you being "dishonest", I can only write - don´t be so bloody dishonest about you being dishonest! :D :wink:
Now I´ll think about what it´s meant and done for me - climbing and mountains that is.
Servus



Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?

Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.

Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.

Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.

Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.

Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.

Guy:

I figured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.


That is a pretty oxymoron statement considering your prior post....

And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber.


As I see that transaction, you Guy, can dish it out, expect me to suck it up, yet you can't take it.... hmmm.

I have been taught through the ages that no one can offend me unless I allow them to. Think about it.

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Charles

 
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Charles » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:54 pm

The Chief wrote:
Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?

Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.

Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.

Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.

Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.

Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.

Guy:

I figured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.


That is a pretty oxymoron statement considering your prior post....

And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber.


As I see that transaction, you Guy, can dish it out, expect me to suck it up, yet you can't take it.... hmmm.

I have been taught through the ages that no one can offend me unless I allow them to. Think about it.

Oh come on Chief - who contemplates what when their climbing? This is for after - round the table with a few glasses!

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by mvs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:35 pm

charles wrote:
The Chief wrote:
Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?
...

Oh come on Chief - who contemplates what when their climbing? This is for after - round the table with a few glasses!


Exactly! :lol: I never thought I'd say this on a bulletin board system, but now I'm compelled to defend my right to post philosophical bullshit that probably doesn't mean anything to anybody but myself. :oops:

And indeed, if I'm lucky or good that day, I'm not thinking about anything while climbing. Don't worry anyway, I'm sure after a few beers here at the philosophers table, we'll all get up, wipe our brains, and send. :P

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Guyzo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:53 pm

Rick.... go back and look at some of the post about "homos" you put up.... or took down.... You were one of the folks who really turned this site on its ear. You were not alone by any means.

That is what started, in my opinion only, all of the heavy handed Moderation we now have.

You can say anything about me you wish.

In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

One thing I have gained through climbing is this:

In normal life, people do and say all sorts of things.

But while actually "Climbing", when the chips are hitting the fan, people get real.

You are somebody who I would gladly go toss chips with.

late

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by mrchad9 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:13 pm

Guyzo wrote:In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

That is too bad, since the Chief we see on the net can be pretty entertaining.

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by mvs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:13 pm

mrchad9 wrote:
Guyzo wrote:In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

That is too bad, since the Chief we see on the net can be pretty entertaining.


Both statements are (happily) true. :lol:

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by The Chief » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:31 am

Guyzo wrote:Rick.... go back and look at some of the post about "homos" you put up.... or took down.... You were one of the folks who really turned this site on its ear. You were not alone by any means.


WTF are you talking about GUY??????? Please do cite refs... please.

My Oldest Son is Gay and I personally could give a flying fk what anyone does in their bedroom, or barn or where ever!

I seriously think that you have been smoking far too much of that cheapass ragweed.

I don't do any "round table" shit btw.

As far as "getting real", I have never confronted nor been through any harder days while climbing, as I had in my 24 year Naval career.

That is one primary reason I climbed during all them years. To get away and not think about the shit I had to endure.

Things that only a very few here on SP know exactly what I am speaking of.

So I do not understand the premise of this thread as I never gave up anything to climb. It in fact replaced many things in my life that had been taken away from me.

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

by Kiefer » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:30 am

"What have I given up for climbing?"


A Technical Writing position with Time Warner Telecom working in both Denver & Seattle. I do think occasionally about the salary and stocks I gave up
but the 9 years I spent in Vail and that in all liklihood, I'm with my future wife (met while climbing), I'd say the price was worth more than any damn percentage that corporate America could have granted.
Climbing (for me...alpine), has created something special from an mediocre life of normalancy & indifference.

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