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What have you given up for climbing?

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Charles » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:55 am

mvs wrote:
Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

...


Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.

What I meant to do was something like this:

#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?

I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.

I´m glad you´ve improved on the "sacrifice" bit, Mike - I can relate in a more positive way to your train of thought. As for you being "dishonest", I can only write - don´t be so bloody dishonest about you being dishonest! :D :wink:
Now I´ll think about what it´s meant and done for me - climbing and mountains that is.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby The Chief » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:53 pm

charles wrote:
mvs wrote:
Daria wrote:The way this question is posed is inherently flawed. To assume that one sacrifices implies that one has to "give up something of value, worth, and to accept this under unsalvageable terms and conditions".

The fact is, we choose climbing over things that we simply don't care about. Not caring about something implies low to nonexistent perceived worth. If we don't care about some things, we don't mind "sacrificing or giving them up" in favor of climbing, since the lack of the sacrificed entities doesn't affect us anyway.

...


Good post! I can respond to the first part. I agree that my original statement was flawed. I'll go one better and say dishonest. The flaw came from a thoughtlessly employed dramatic convention, highlighting "sacrifice" when, in reality, I was tossing around for things to offer up as having been sacrificed. This resulted in the hilarious impression (for those who know me) that I pined for a management job and was crying bitter tears over all kinds of things.

What I meant to do was something like this:

#1 - wow, I devote a lot of physical and mental energy to climbing.
#2 - Look! I even moved from place to place to further such activity.
#3 - What if I never discovered climbing? Where would all those years worth of energy go?
#4 - How about you guys? Can you speculate on the alternate reality that might have developed for you?

I don't ask those questions with bitterness, only wonder. For example, before climbing I was a musician. I think my mom is still heartbroken that I didn't keep pursuing that. Maybe it's easier to see the alternate versions of yourself that might have developed in the eyes of other people.

I´m glad you´ve improved on the "sacrifice" bit, Mike - I can relate in a more positive way to your train of thought. As for you being "dishonest", I can only write - don´t be so bloody dishonest about you being dishonest! :D :wink:
Now I´ll think about what it´s meant and done for me - climbing and mountains that is.
Servus



Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?

Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.

Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.

Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.

Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.

Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.

Guy:

I figured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.


That is a pretty oxymoron statement considering your prior post....

And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber.


As I see that transaction, you Guy, can dish it out, expect me to suck it up, yet you can't take it.... hmmm.

I have been taught through the ages that no one can offend me unless I allow them to. Think about it.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Charles » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:54 pm

The Chief wrote:
Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?

Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.

Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.

Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.

Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.

Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.

Guy:

I figured you have a tough hide, and you can handle anything.


That is a pretty oxymoron statement considering your prior post....

And to you, Rick I will say this, at one time you put up some of the most tasteless, hate filled stuff I have ever read. Some of the stuff you said to others made me sick and not proud to call myself a climber.


As I see that transaction, you Guy, can dish it out, expect me to suck it up, yet you can't take it.... hmmm.

I have been taught through the ages that no one can offend me unless I allow them to. Think about it.

Oh come on Chief - who contemplates what when their climbing? This is for after - round the table with a few glasses!
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mvs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:35 pm

charles wrote:
The Chief wrote:
Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?
...

Oh come on Chief - who contemplates what when their climbing? This is for after - round the table with a few glasses!


Exactly! :lol: I never thought I'd say this on a bulletin board system, but now I'm compelled to defend my right to post philosophical bullshit that probably doesn't mean anything to anybody but myself. :oops:

And indeed, if I'm lucky or good that day, I'm not thinking about anything while climbing. Don't worry anyway, I'm sure after a few beers here at the philosophers table, we'll all get up, wipe our brains, and send. :P
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Guyzo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:53 pm

Rick.... go back and look at some of the post about "homos" you put up.... or took down.... You were one of the folks who really turned this site on its ear. You were not alone by any means.

That is what started, in my opinion only, all of the heavy handed Moderation we now have.

You can say anything about me you wish.

In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

One thing I have gained through climbing is this:

In normal life, people do and say all sorts of things.

But while actually "Climbing", when the chips are hitting the fan, people get real.

You are somebody who I would gladly go toss chips with.

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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mrchad9 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:13 pm

Guyzo wrote:In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

That is too bad, since the Chief we see on the net can be pretty entertaining.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby mvs » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:13 pm

mrchad9 wrote:
Guyzo wrote:In real life you are NOT like "the Chief" we see on the net.

That is too bad, since the Chief we see on the net can be pretty entertaining.


Both statements are (happily) true. :lol:
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby The Chief » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:31 am

Guyzo wrote:Rick.... go back and look at some of the post about "homos" you put up.... or took down.... You were one of the folks who really turned this site on its ear. You were not alone by any means.


WTF are you talking about GUY??????? Please do cite refs... please.

My Oldest Son is Gay and I personally could give a flying fk what anyone does in their bedroom, or barn or where ever!

I seriously think that you have been smoking far too much of that cheapass ragweed.

I don't do any "round table" shit btw.

As far as "getting real", I have never confronted nor been through any harder days while climbing, as I had in my 24 year Naval career.

That is one primary reason I climbed during all them years. To get away and not think about the shit I had to endure.

Things that only a very few here on SP know exactly what I am speaking of.

So I do not understand the premise of this thread as I never gave up anything to climb. It in fact replaced many things in my life that had been taken away from me.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Kiefer » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:30 am

"What have I given up for climbing?"


A Technical Writing position with Time Warner Telecom working in both Denver & Seattle. I do think occasionally about the salary and stocks I gave up
but the 9 years I spent in Vail and that in all liklihood, I'm with my future wife (met while climbing), I'd say the price was worth more than any damn percentage that corporate America could have granted.
Climbing (for me...alpine), has created something special from an mediocre life of normalancy & indifference.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Daria » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 am

The Chief wrote:

Do any of you really contemplate any of this while you are actually climbing?

Maybe everyone here needs to stop "philosophizing" this gig to shit and just go do it. Enjoy the moment for what it really is, not what one thinks it may be.

Being in the moment ("Now"), is allowing oneself to not think about anything. Rather, allowing all that is occurring, to do so, freely. All without any of ones perceptions to infect the real moment.

Climbing a prime example of a Zen moment. One dedicated to the Zen way knows that thinking and ones self imposed perceptions are not part of the process. They allow the moment to flow freely around them and within them. Absorbing what is real and not what one believes may be real.

Stop thinking so much boys and girls. You may just find that this climbing thing encompasses far more than asking if one is "giving up" anything to do so.

Rather, it becomes a part of ones life as are all the other entities that one chooses to partake in. It becomes part of ones learning process throughout their daily life.



Can there be both, or can both coexist? This is where my original argument comes in where I was calling out for a need to be more multifaceted and multidimensional, cus a climber/philosopher/(fashion designer) is more interesting than a climbing machine. It also draws on my second argument regarding needs, undoubtedly climbing will not satisfy ALL of our needs, hence, exercising the brain is good every once in a while. Trying to make sense of what we do, how we do it and why we do something serve as the building blocks for aspiration and eventual action, which without--there is no "in the moment" you speak of. Although all this talk and philosophy can be seen as brain masturbation-its not as satisfying as the 'real deal', aka going out there and doing shit, the reality is that our conscious experience consist of fluctuations: from exhilarating "in the moments" to silent reflection and subsequent motivation for further action. Beyond our specific time in history and mountaineering destinations there is a "bigger picture" and who knows that that means or entails.
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby Daria » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:01 am

mattski wrote:
brain masturbation



is that looking at climbing in the guide book or on here kind of thing. What it is i like it


I'm glad my post could be reduced to those two words
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Re: What have you given up for climbing?

Postby SoCalHiker » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:34 am

Daria wrote:
mattski wrote:
brain masturbation



is that looking at climbing in the guide book or on here kind of thing. What it is i like it


I'm glad my post could be reduced to those two words


...because nobody understood the rest of it...
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