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Your Time vs. Book Time

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Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Castlereagh » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:11 pm

Probably more relevant to the Northeast than anywhere else, seeing as our trail terrain is pretty uniform in that we don't deal too much with talus/scree etc. How does everyone here usually do vs. the standard White Mountains book time (2 miles = 1 hr, 1000 ft = 1/2 hr, I think). I certainly don't claim to hold any speed records; though I usually beat book time by a decent amount I feel like most people would. Did the round trip Zealand/Guyot/3 Bonds and back again hike today a smidge under 8 1/2 hours, though, pretty impressed with my time for once (book time per NH4000ers website is 12:20). I guess, as a former out of shape slowpoke (my 1st real hike 3 years ago it took me 8 hours to do the Lincoln Lafayette loop, granted in early May conditions), I'm wondering how I stack up against some of the more elite climbers of the area.



Edit: Wrote "train terrain" instead of "trail terrain" the first time around.
Last edited by Castlereagh on Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby apachedino » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:54 pm

If you are just talking trails and no hard technical climbing then there are amazing people that can run anything, half dome has been done in less than 2 and 1/2 hours from the TH (~5000 vert and 17 miles), the Grand Teton has been done in ~3 hours, and the winner of the Western States 100 miler this year (Geoff Roes) did 100 miles and ~26,000 vertical in something under 16 hours! There are some seriously amazing trail runners out there and records are getting smashed all the time. Technical climbing is another story though.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby triyoda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:47 am

I think terrain in the East is typically a lot harder than stuff out west.

For the two examples you gave, the trails are mostly very well graded and smooth. To get to the saddle in Grand Teton in a 1.5 hours would not be a problem and I am sure a proficient climber could easily knock out the rest of the route from there in a similar amount of time. Same thing for half dome, the first mile or more of the trail is paved. On typical northeast terrain, 30 minutes miles is actually a pretty solid pace and there is no way you could realistically "run" on most trails.

Contrast that with slippery wet rock, roots and mud that we have to deal with. I feel much safer on scree and talus because it is usually dry.

As far as the original point, I am not sure where the times come from. I think it is good for them to provide somewhat sandbag times, I would much rather plan for 12 hours and be done in 9 than the other way around.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Buz Groshong » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:33 pm

It ain't a race. It's about having fun. So who even looks at book times?
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby justing » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:42 pm

triyoda wrote:I think terrain in the East is typically a lot harder than stuff out west.


Though I haven't done much in the northeast aside from a wet and rainy hike up Mt Washington, I would find this, uh, surprising.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby justing » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:55 pm

Fletch wrote:My mountains are harder than your mountains.


I think we need a new thread -- top ten most dangerous terrains. :)
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Tonka » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:13 pm

I think terrain in the East is typically a lot harder than stuff out west.


I think you will get a lot of pushback on that comment, even from those in the East. I find the mid-west has the hardest terrian in the lower 48.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:50 pm

Go off-trail in the NE; say, the Adirondacks. Report when you get back.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby MoapaPk » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:21 am

mattski wrote:by the looks of things you guys in the usa have nice approach trails with out evin a stone on them

Approach trail for Mt Wilson, NV (before the real climbing):
Image

First Creek. No stones, just big rocks.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby nartreb » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:35 am

It all depends. If I'm packing light and tyring to go fast, I can often go about twice as fast as book time. On a winter overnight trip, breaking trail, I'm happy to equal book time. Now if I were actually fast, I'd be aiming at the record for the Pemi Loop: seven hours (book time 20:15).

As for east vs west, I'll say this: what's this word "switchback"? I've got a buddy swears he's seen a few in the East, but he believes in Bigfoot too.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Castlereagh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:11 am

nartreb wrote:It all depends. If I'm packing light and tyring to go fast, I can often go about twice as fast as book time. On a winter overnight trip, breaking trail, I'm happy to equal book time. Now if I were actually fast, I'd be aiming at the record for the Pemi Loop: seven hours (book time 20:15).



All the speed records (here and out west in CO/CA as well) are unreal. Half book time is pretty damn fast too. I fast walk when I can, so I gotta figure you're at jogging speed by that point?


MoapaPk wrote:Go off-trail in the NE; say, the Adirondacks. Report when you get back.


Trust me, I am almost more terrified of the ADK bushwhacks than I am most class 3-4 peaks out west.




The whole terrain debate, I'd definitely have to say that I think the West is tougher. I've probably never even experienced the worst of the talus of Idaho or the scree of the Absarokas, to name a few examples. Yeah, there's switchbacks below tree line, but once you're up above the trees going 1000 ft up a scree gully steeper than most non-switchbacking paths in the NE, that's pretty tough shit.

I did Mt. Powell the other month (in the Gores, one of the easier peaks of the range even). 10 miles round trip, 4200 net elevation gain (I'm convinced it's close to over 5000 if you consider all the ups and downs). Doesn't sound too back, but pretty much 90% of that elevation gain is over steep, loose terrain with poor footing. I don't think I've ever been so exhausted on a hike, even compared to more technically difficult outings (such as N Maroon or Pyramid); also another reason why I dread S Maroon, whenever I get to that.
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Alpinisto » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:54 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Go off-trail in the NE; say, the Adirondacks. Report if you get back.


There...fixed that for ya. :D
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Re: Your Time vs. Book Time

Postby Bark Eater » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:55 pm

I expect book times are largely published to keep beginners from biting off more than they can chew and from getting into trouble. Most experienced hikers beat them. Of course there are huge differences in pace depending upon whether you are day tripping or carrying a full pack. Re: Eastern vs. Western trails debate. Switchback? What's a switchback? :D
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