Im headed down to Zion in mid March and I want to hike the narrows from top to bottom spending a night in the canyon if possible.

Has anyone done this in March and if so what was your experience? Any info is greatly appreciated. I realize that conditions change.

Also if you have any other recommendations for things to do that would be great. I am planning on spending about a weeks time in the park, doing some bouldering and hiking.

Zion Narrows is doable in March with a thick wetsuit/dry suit (which can be rented in Springdale), but it is very unlikely that the road to the top will be open since it has been a heavy snow year. It would be better to go from the bottom up and back the same way.

(Robert Lefkow photo):

Also if you have any other recommendations for things to do that would be great. I am planning on spending about a weeks time in the park, doing some bouldering and hiking.

You may be hard pressed to find stuff to do for a week. The two major trails (West Rim/Observation Pt) are easily done in a day or couple hours each. There is camping atop the West Rim, but boring and plain aside from the view.

You might try asking about the Subway and Left Fork, two canyon scrambles, and also there are the Guardian Angels to top (cl.3 and 4).

Zion seems to have a cool bc office, they'll give you free blue bags (2009) for overnight with getting their permits.

I got some snow near Vegas in late March, and you can have bad weather. If you are committed to go no matter what, maybe with the probability of rain and snow you'll have enough time to do the hikes and scrambles, layover days during any rain can be spent cruising over to Bryce/Cedar Breaks/Vegas/Red Rocks or what. Spring storms are usually not that long or bad (generalization). Photographers may get clearing storms and snow on red rock (I'd give a lot to get those ops, now).

cp015 seems to be on top of it all as far as that part of the SW. Though I think you'll need a rope partner to do what he does.

There's a ton of stuff you could do that time of year:

-You could spend a week just exploring the amazing slickrock terrain on the east side of the park (just off UT-9);

-You've got all the standard trails you could explore, such as the East Rim Trail, East Mesa Trail, West Rim Trail, Coalpits Wash, Chinle Trail, Hop Valley Trail, etc.;

-Quite a few mountain scrambles, like Angels Landing, Lady Mountain, Checkerboard Mesa, Progeny Peak, Cougar Mountain, etc.;

-In Zion Canyon, you can hike up to Emerald Pools, Weeping Rock, Riverside Walk (for the bottom-up Narrows thing Scott mentioned), Pa'Rus Trail, Sand Bench Trail, Canyon Overlook Trail, Observation Point;

-You can explore Clear Creek (on the east side) too.

Tons of stuff, without even visiting the high country (which will probably still be buried under snow)!

No offense is meant at all, but I must kindly disagree with 1000Pks post.

You may be hard pressed to find stuff to do for a week.

You can spend years there and not see the same thing twice. The park is 229 square miles, which sounds big, but not that big, but there is no such thing as a straight line route.

The two major trails (West Rim/Observation Pt) are easily done in a day or couple hours each.

There are a lot more than "two major trails" in the park, not to mention countless off trail routes.

You might try asking about the Subway and Left Fork, two canyon scrambles

The Subway is the Left Fork, not a seperate route. Also, in March, it's a dangerous place and filled with ice and snow and requires much experience (and equipment) to attempt it at that time of year. Even in May, the canyon can hold significant snow and ice.

No offense is meant at all, but 1000Pks post is full of bad information.

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You may be hard pressed to find stuff to do for a week.


You can spend years there and not see the same thing twice. The park is 229 square miles, which sounds big, but not that big, but there is no such thing as a straight line route.

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The two major trails (West Rim/Observation Pt) are easily done in a day or couple hours each.


There are a lot more than "two major trails" in the park, not to mention countless off trail routes.

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You might try asking about the Subway and Left Fork, two canyon scrambles


The Subway is the Left Fork, not a seperate route. Also, in March, it's a dangerous place and filled with ice and snow and requires much experience (and equipment) to attempt it at that time of year. Even in May, the canyon can hold significant snow and ice.

Well, I have to defend my words once again. Obviously there are rock routes, hundreds of them, and infinite bc routes, in any park, as big as they come. But the major sights are few. How many scrambles or hikes to do to see every nook and cranny, I didn't think that was your gist. Or anybody's except for locals. Few tourists stay for more than a few days. Then many of them don't even hike or climb. If you live there you can find new things to do, I've climbed hundreds of peak ascents in my local area, but the locals refuse most of it with a hearty ban!

The Subway, as I understood it, is a small part of the Left Fork, a sight to see in itself. People enjoy Zion at all times of the year, it just depends on conditions. All or most all Zion trails and hikes are dangerous, two people fell off Angels Landing recently. It can be better or worse, though.

I wouldn't waste your time quoting hundreds of things to do when so few will ever do them. Most here will respond in kind say should you ask about things to do in Yosemite. Half Dome, Clouds Rest, Mt.Lyell, Dana are what usually comes up, with a few moderate or difficult rock climbs as well.

People love attacking me here as it seems to be what is the thing to do. You need not pay exorbitant fees to guides, or to buy worthless trail guides. Then there is the MLC SC and its allies or paid help. People may proclaim their expertise to then invite fee guided tours, some side money for what they are about. I've never charged anyone a penny for info or leading services. Professionals will not like that. You can set up a guide service asking thousands for what many will do for free provided some basic competence. There are MLC SC to ask for money, big time, for moron circling about and other singles games.

But then take it as you will. Real bad advice, if you are gullible enough to believe it all, that will be your choice!

But the major sights are few.

Even if you stick only to the official and popular trails, you could easily spend a week there.
The “two major trails” in the park you mention aren’t even the most popular hikes in the park.

The Subway, as I understood it, is a small part of the Left Fork, a sight to see in itself. People enjoy Zion at all times of the year, it just depends on conditions. All or most all Zion trails and hikes are dangerous, two people fell off Angels Landing recently.

Conditions in the Left Fork/Subway in March are always for experts, no matter which year it is. Period. There is no comparison between Angels Landing in March and the Subway in March. Angels landing is at a fairly low elevation and for the most part is a desert hike. The Subway Trailhead is at 7000 feet and since the canyon seldom sees sun it always has snow and ice water at that time of year. Even in July, the water is cold and swimming is always required (at least to complete the hike). In March, the water is deadly unless you have a thick wetsuit/drysuit.

Unless one is an expert in long swims through icewater and ice covered technical obstacles, the only way I would recommend the Subway in March is the partial hike in from the bottom. Even then you would be lucky to even make it to the Subway, though in mild years it can be done.

People love attacking me here as it seems to be what is the thing to do.

I was disagreeing with your information, not attacking you.

Here's the official gist on Left Fork/Subway.

http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/left-fork-the-subway.htm

I read it as some rope work necessary. By what the MLC SC locals here regard themselves, rappelling is what they all can do, by them. Even if cl. 3 is well beyond them!

The map they gave out in Sept. 2009 indicates no other trails, than what I said, by my memory. Then they do not want tourists on bc routes.

I see that some locals by them can easily refute my words, leaving out "mostly" and "probably," and all, being that I do not claim full expertise. Why this is, pouring more bc ops which I never said didn't exist, well that is SP, I guess. If you have only a day or two by Tahoe, I will not waste your time directing you to the hundreds of ops when that is not what you asked.

Snow and ice does not deter me. By the past MLC SC ops, we did most everything everytime. There are hikers who will do wading and swimming in all times of the year. I am not a polar bear type, so if you wish to stay out of freezing water perhaps still in March, maybe listen to the locals. We hiked the Narrows in early October, and back then I heard that it is done (bottom back to bottom) at all times of the year. Even if it was completely frozen I might consider it with competent partners. But that seems unlikely.

Sorry that I don't always reply with a full detailed account of everything you can conceivably do in whatever time of year, but I do not do this for any but good natured information, not paid for by anyone.

OK, CP is too polite, so look at this book:
http://cpinthebackcountry.blogspot.com/ ... es_08.html
...but a lot of those "hikes" may be treacherous in March.

Also explore Bo and Tanya's site for a wide range:
http://www.zionnational-park.com/

A beauty of Zion, is that so few people who visit actually venture off the standard trails... yet access is often so easy to a wild backcountry... a very wild and mercurial backcountry. Sandstone and sleet don't mix.

I don't usually think of that as a bouldering destination.

MoapaPk wrote:
I don't usually think of that as a bouldering destination.

Thanks for the references. I am just going for spring break with my girlfriend and a couple others, none of which are big into climbing, but more so the hiking aspect. I am bringing my shoes just to have if there is some rock available during time not spent hiking or whatever else.

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Just looking for things to do in and around the area. I am definitely capable and interested in heading into the backcountry to do any scrambles or hikes. And whatever snow there may be it will be less than what I am used to up here in Duluth, any escape from it is going to be great.

Thanks again for the links.

Bring them there and do Angels Landing. It's a good hike for the senses. Then find the Kolob Canyon trailhead and go backcountry for a few days. It's secluded and worthwhile. Just watch out for the horseflies at the start of the hike, they draw blood.

1000peaks, I was just disagreeing with some information presented, not trying to pick a fight or anything. It wouldn’t be worth doing so. Sorry if it sounded like an attack or disrespectful.

Anyway, the Subway is a great hike. It’s one of the best ones in the world and highly recommended. You should do it sometime. March isn’t the best time though, unless you have full wetsuits/drysuits and lots of experience.

I read it as some rope work necessary.

Yes, only a little rope work is required in good conditions. In late May through sometime in October, it’s basically a hike with some good scrambling and a few rappels. As semi-technical canyons go, it’s a pretty easy one (in season).

In winter though, it’s a whole different animal. Even if you are used to climbing snow and ice (I climb mountains year round in -60F windchills), the slot canyons are still really serious propositions in winter. Because the sun doesn’t reach the bottom, but the water still flows and splashes, ice coated walls are a serious problem. Add that to the fact that you might be swimming while busting ice, all while moving slowly (and hopefully restricted in a wetsuit), it’s really easy to have an accident. I winter, swimming through a slot is different from doing cold swim while out on a hike. Winter descents of the Subway have been done, but they are rare. Speaking from experience, I would consider doing wet slots in winter to be much “colder” than say climbing the Colorado 14ers (or even the Tetons) in the winter and certainly much more dangerous.

If it were a different season though, the Subway suggestion is a great one. You should do it sometime. The summitpost information is excellent; better than the info on the NPS site:

http://www.summitpost.org/canyon/366669/the-subway.html

It is not the most challenging canyon, but it is still one of the most fun and certainly the most beautiful I have seen (anywhere in the world) when you consider the beauty per mile ratio of the canyon.

If you come from the bottom though in March, it might be reasonable, but you would also miss some of the best parts. I would highly recommend the Subway as one of the best, if not the best summer/early fall hike in all of Zion. You should do it sometime.

The map they gave out in Sept. 2009 indicates no other trails, than what I said, by my memory. Then they do not want tourists on bc routes.

It sounds like the NPS may have given you bad information. If interested, here are the maps on the NPS site that show the trail options down there. I would definitely recommend spending a week in the area.

Zion Canyon:

http://www.nps.gov/archive/zion/images/ ... yonMap.pdf

Zion NP (most of Zion NP is actually outside Zion Canyon):

http://www.nps.gov/archive/zion/images/ ... ap_web.pdf

For the popular trails (even though crowded), Emerald Pools, Angels Landing (has exposure) and Hidden Canyon Trails shouldn’t be missed. If you haven’t done those, they are good (but crowded) hikes. You can actually go much farther up Hidden Canyon than the "official trail" marked on the map is, but eventually there are scrambling obstacles and you have to be careful. Hidden Canyon can be icy in March though. You Possibly Angels Landing too. Next time you are in Zion outside summer, I would recommend those ones, though it sounds like you’ve already done Angels Landing.

Farther north, I like the Taylor Canyon Trail and the Kolob Arch Trail too. Some people don’t like the Kolob Arch Trail as much, but it’s quite scenic since it passes by so many soaring cliffs. Farther up La Verkin Creek, Beartrap Canyon has a nice waterfall and some nice narrows. March is usually OK for Kolob Arch, but Beartrap is sometimes hard to get to before April. Some people really like the Hop Valley Trail; I think it’s good, but not the best. I like the Deertrap Mountain Trail for its isolation, but for views it isn't any better than the much shorter routes up Obervation Point and Angels Landing.

In winter, the Sand Bench Trail is pretty nice, but I would only recommend it in the winter when the other trails are closed. Coalpits Canyon is another good winter one, but I like the upper canyon the best which is quite a long hike. By April, Northgate Peaks trail is good.

By late spring, the watery hikes are in season (though on occasion the Narrows can be closed due to high water). I would recommend Orderville Canyon, Subway and maybe Right Fork from the bottom (the best parts of Right Fork require ropes to access). Lower Kolob is a good one and is mostly non technical.

Just outside the park is Canaan Mountain which is also worthy of several days (or weeks) of exploration.

Of course, for off the beaten track routes the possibilities are endless, but I guess that’s another topic altogether.

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Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. Just looking for things to do in and around the area. I am definitely capable and interested in heading into the backcountry to do any scrambles or hikes.

Also in the area is Red Cliffs and Quail Creek which is worth a stop and a hike:



More info:

http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/redcliffs.html

Snow Canyon State Park (named for a person, not the cold snow!) is another area woth a visit.

Red Mountain is a great little climb.

And whatever snow there may be it will be less than what I am used to up here in Duluth, any escape from it is going to be great.

In the bottom of Zion Canyon and along the Virgin River and St. Geoge areas, this is true (snow is pretty rare in those places), but the high elevations of Zion get plenty of snow (more than 200 inches a year), so much of it is inaccessible without skis,/snowshoes. Just north of the park, parts of Cedar Breaks and Brian Head get over 400 inches of snow a year.

That said, it is actually worth it to ski to Cedar Breaks in winter if you can swing it (the road is snowbound), but there's plenty to do in the desert as well. Bryce Canyon is also a neat place in winter, but they get quite a bit of snow there too.

You can also head south to the Arizona Strip, but you will have plenty to keep you occupied up around Zion. Valley of Fire is neat too, but is less spectacular than Zion, but is still worth a stop if it's on the way.

I'll be headed down to Zion myself this weekend and can't wait.

Have a great trip.

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No offense is meant at all, but 1000Pks post is full of bad information.

Quote:
You may be hard pressed to find stuff to do for a week.

Seeing the OP was changed a bit, I was replying to what seems like saying that I am full of baloney. Common from MLC SC and their allies here.

I must admit I didn't see the East Rim trail on the maps, for some reason. I don't have time to go back and check my maps, or figure out what exactly was posted on other websites including the NPS Zion site.

I said the West Rim Trail (inc. Angels Landing, actually a side trail if you consider it that) and Observation Point as the two major trails. There are streamside trails designed for tourists who do not like gain, exposure, steep parts, ambitious adventure (by them) that may be the most popular. I don't hike those, yet, so really can't say.

In 2009, I noted maybe 100 hikers on the West Rim Tr at its lower end, up to about Angels Landing. In mid day when more tourists will be up and about, I am on the summits or trail maxima. Popular trails can mean wimpy stuff, you should be warned. Very few will hike bc by what I can see.

Incidentally you should have a blue bag or few along with people that may need to go without any facilities close by. There is an outhouse (new to me, in 2009) just past the turnoff to Angels Landing, busily used by what I could see. They told me in 2007 or so that they cost a few dollars. I am in need of another one since I gave mine (from another TH) away. Anyone know of a good deal on those, online?

I read no offense meant, but I gave a lot of good concise info and by me does not merit "full of bad info." I do get that a lot. I am not a UT local, but I saw no replies very quickly, and I have the time. I have never claimed to be all knowing, as another post seemed to suggest. There is plenty of bad info here, on SP, or was, I can't check pages constantly.

You do have to watch out for guidebooks, at least in the past. You would be amazed at what totally bad directions are given out by major national clubs or their members. If you were a fool, and led to believe that guides are the "Climber's Bible(s)," by them, to be followed blindly and fully, as some here will insist, you are a dead person. I can't check on the books linked to from here, but there are venues with quite the malicious people, and considerable amounts of pure disinformation, I know personally!

Believe me, you, with good weather, will have fun in any National Park, they are the last refuges for such hikers and lovers of such spectacular scenery. I'd admit first that I have never been to Zion in March, but have checked on ops and weather there for some time. Not to be too discouraging, but they can get stretches of rain and snow, even then. But, you being from distant places and presumably flying or with what reservations, and the uncertainty of snowfall to then, things do happen.

By me, some bc routes are a waste of time. You have people to rave over them, and then you miss the truly spectacular spots. Like hiking at Jacob Lake instead of a visit to the North Rim. Or, by the MLC SC, to partake in some miserable trail, dusty and deteriorated, instead of seeing Lake Tahoe, or Yosemite.

I will continue to suggest other parks and places to visit. Granted we had parks chiefs saying that rafting down the GC became boring, and that they prayed for a rescue or evac. How long you will stay exactly in Zion, well many SC will say they are sick and tired of red rock after only a couple days. Or snow, granite, national parks, hiking, and all. Most people have had enough of one thing too many times, or for too long. Just the gist, by me!

My head's spinning.

Hey Scott, a funky time to visit Zion. Curious what you're gonna be doing...?

Hey Scott, a funky time to visit Zion. Curious what you're gonna be doing...?

Just got back.

Day 1 we first stopped at Kolob Canyons and then visited the Red Cliffs area west of the park. We checked out Quail Creek and went to some petroglyphs and ruins.

Day 2 we did the Huber Wash/Petrified Forest Loop in the park.

Day 3 we headed for the Snow Canyon area, climbed some of the domes, explored some of the lava tubes, climbed a cindercone and explored some of the slickrock areas.

Day 4 the kids wanted to go back to Quail Creek to show it to their cousins so I let them go there.

I wish we could have done more, but we ran out of time.

It was all perfect weather and a great trip. It's my favorite time of year for the non-tech canyons. I'll have my log updated with photos soon.

I said the West Rim Trail (inc. Angels Landing, actually a side trail if you consider it that) and Observation Point as the two major trails.

What about all the trails in the Kolob Canyons section and Kolob Terrace sections of the park? It takes several days to hike them. Zion Canyon is just a very small section of Zion NP.

There are streamside trails designed for tourists who do not like gain, exposure, steep parts, ambitious adventure (by them) that may be the most popular.

This is true. Emerald Pools is probably the most popular hike in the park (with the possible exception of Weeping Rock) and for good reason. Like all trails in Zion (unless you consider something like Lady Mountain a trail), it is an easy hike and very popular, but it's still a must-do for any first time visitor. The lower waterfalls always flow, but Heaps Canyon has a good chance of flowing in March. The waterfall is well over 400 feet high:



As stated, going to the lower pools is not an adventure, but it's still pretty:



It is quite a short hike though.

Seeing the OP was changed a bit, I was replying to what seems like saying that I am full of baloney.

I changed the original post so it was less confrontational and friendlier (which it should have been in the first place-my fault). I was only responding because I keep seeing a repeating pattern of similar post from you about there being not that much to do/hike/climb in many parts of the Southwest (whether it be Canyonlands, Zion, Sedona or the Southwest in general). I remember you going as far as saying that someone moving to the SW would be “climbed out” after not too long (truth be known that the SW probably has more exposed rock than anywhere in the world and far more variety than about anywhere in the country, glaciated terrain excepted). To me, it would be like me saying, "there isn't much to do in the Sierra Nevada except for Mount Whitney", so don't bother spending much time there. It seems (to me) that you know places like Southern AZ well, but haven’t seen much of the rest of the Southwest, so I was simply disagreeing with your comments. I know I’ve done the same thing on threads (and chastised for it), so it’s not that big of a deal and not worth arguing over. I assume that you were just trying to help the original poster, than that’s just OK. It's good that you are being helpful and heloing out otehr members. That's what the forums are for, so don't take my comments to seriously.

PS, most SP members don’t know or care who/what MLC SC is, so it helps if that weren’t mentioned in so many post.

I guess this thread has taken a serious off-track note though and should have stayed on track.