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Date Climbed/Hiked:
EastcoastMike - Aug 10, 2009 4:10 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: ?sWell its just good to hear that you guys made it back ok. I can definitely learn a thing or two from this report. Thanks for posting.
noahs213 - Aug 10, 2009 4:13 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ?sYes I agree. That would of been the smartest idea indeed. We didn't know if this storm would ever stop though. And it would of been very dangerous trying to do basically Class 4/5 in the snow. But It would of been best to do that.
We went down the snow a little bit. That's when I waited it out and when we got seperated I tried a new route on the face of South Maroon that lead to the summit over some Class 4/5 terrain.
John Kirk - Aug 10, 2009 8:06 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ?sGlad you realize what would have been the best choice. There are many who have died in that couloir retreating hastily.
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:52 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ?shttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:53 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ?shttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
KevinCraig - Aug 10, 2009 10:26 pm - Hasn't voted
From a friendA friend of mine asked me to post this for him (I concur with all he says)...
As others have already addressed this, I won’t question your judgment. So here are some hints from somebody who has spent a lot of time in nasty mountains. I hope you find these hints useful:
*Not freaking out is the best survival tool. It sounds as if you and your partner were getting quite stressed (praying and such). This is very dangerous. The key is to think rationally about how to get out of an adverse situation, and to NOT FREAK OUT. I might suggest that you do a lot of easy walk-ups/scrambles in adverse or winter conditions in order to build confidence that you can deal with suboptimal situations. Rope up if need be, but get the experience. The fact that you consider snowed-up 4th class terrain as “very dangerous” indicates to me that you need to get more experience on snowed up rock—you will likely run into this again. The more you deal with adverse conditions in a relatively safe scenario, the more you will be able to deal rationally with a truly ugly situation.
*The fact that it was raining when you started indicated that there was a lot of atmospheric moisture, and thus would have indicated to me that the probability of later storms was increased. Learning local weather patterns is a matter of spending a lot of time in the hills.
*In general, you should think carefully about what you are wearing and carrying; e.g. the fact that you were carrying firestarters on an alpine climb indicates that you need to review what you carry. In general, for a summer climb, you need to be able to stay warm and dry under any anticipated conditions, and you need to be able to escape if things turn ugly. At the same time, weight is the enemy, so keep your pack small. Specific suggestions are below.
*I’m glad you wore helmets—I don’t know how many people I’ve seen on loose Colorado scrambles not wearing one—completely daft!
*I don’t know what you were wearing, but on any summer alpine climb you should have gloves, warm hat, shell, warm long pants (i.e. softshell; why people wear shorts in the mountains I don’t know), a couple of synthetic shirts. Some people carry an insulated parka—I usually don’t—I carry a light (siliconized nylon) tarp if I have to hunker down. With modern clothes, there’s no reason why you should worry about hypothermia in the summer.
*You really didn’t describe the conditions in the couloir, but if you couldn’t kick steps, then you shouldn’t try to glissade. I’m not clear as to why you didn’t simply climb down. If it was icy, and you didn’t have cramps/tool, then the logical choice would have been to go back the way you came. Sure, it was thundering, but the probability of actually being struck by lightning is pretty low. Scary yes, so do it quick! If the couloir was kickable, then you could have used your trekking poles as a sort of ice ax (perhaps pulling off the basket, if any). Even if it was glissadable, it is entirely possible to use a pole as a brake and/or self-arrest—not nearly as good as an ax, but still doable. I suggest that you practice in a safe place. Regardless, your experience does not “mandate” carrying an ice ax—an ax is heavy and often gets in the way. Two alternatives are a “Whippet” (self-arrest ski pole sold by BD- you will probably need to saw off sections as it will be too long collapsed), or better, a short lightweight ice hammer (e.g. BD Venom), which is useful for other purposes (see below). Even on hard snow you can always cut steps if necessary--again, practice in a safe place. Crampons are heavy, so unless you really think you will need them I would tend to avoid for “just in case” scenarios on rock peaks.
*I carry a 50m 8mm rope on just about any semi-technical scramble, as an escape tool. A 10 ft. rope is useless. Other escape tools are a harness (which I believe you were wearing), rap device, 20m of lightweight cord (6-7mm) or webbing, a small set of nuts and smaller Tri-Cams, and 3 or 4 knifeblade pins (this is why the hammer is necessary). People may look at you funny, but when the weather/conditions turn ugly you will be the one climbing/descending rather than freezing or being rescued.
*A STRONG headlamp with extra batteries is a must. If you have ever tried to do a blind rappel in the dark with a wimpy LED light (as I have) you will not want to repeat the experience.
*Communication is key. You lost communication with your partner, which is not good. A gadget that is very useful is the FRS radio. They are light and very tough. I routinely use one, and make my partners use one. If you want to read about a situation where such radios would have been very handy—read “Touching the Void”.
*Speaking of rescue—different people have different attitudes toward this. My own view is that rescue, short of serious injury (or body recovery), is the last option. As others have said, a rescue puts numerous people at risk. I hope that you have learned that you need to avoid rescue, and not depend upon it. Put yourself in a situation, say, in a remote area of Canada or Alaska. What would you have done, sans SPOT and quick SAR response? It is a useful thought experiment. Read honest published accounts like Simpson, Tasker/Boardman, Doug Scott, etc.
*Good luck!
Kevin8020 - Aug 11, 2009 12:05 am - Hasn't voted
Re: From a friendBefore I respond, I want to say that I agree with much of the above. I just want to address a few things...
*I can't speak for Noah, but I felt like I was able to stay calm, collected, and rational, not stressed out for my descent. It wasn't covered in this TR, but I did in mine, and I agree, it made ALL the difference. The fact that we were praying doesn't indicate we were stressed... As for the rock, it was more the combination of the very loose rock with the technical climbing that made it a non-option during the snow. I agree that that's a comfort thing and more experience would have made that more of an option. These are the Bells we're talking about...
We probably could have re-summited South Maroon within... 45 minutes if we really pushed it with the slick rock. The standard descent route, though, would have taken 2 hours minimum to hit the ridge at 13,200 based on our pace. The two combined would have put us in at-risk locations above 13,000 for almost 3 hours. In the end, despite my fall, I was down to 12,000 in about an hour (estimate). Comparing, reascending South Maroon would have been smarter, while the couloir would have negated the risk faster IF it had been climbable. Did I make the wrong choice here - YES.
*The fire starter thing is a bit confusing to me too... Noah... however, it doesn't indicate a lack of packing skills to me. Perhaps that's my lack of decades of packing experience. We spent quite a bit of time under treeline, and thus it makes some sense to me... but not a lot...
*I did try using my pole in place of an ice axe without any success at all. I'll admit it was one of the things that saved me on my fall, but (physics aside) it wouldn't have done much good. Climbing down was attempted, and also resulted in a small and rather painful fall into a mote. This was some of the hardest snow I've seen this in a long time.
*As for the rescue, calling in SAR was my decision. As far as I was concerned, Noah was in a stuck position-no way up, no way down. I was unaware at the time of initiating the 911 call that he had found a way out. I felt confident that I could make it down, but ended up in a cliffed out location, and after exploring all of the options, aside from a direct ascent of North Maroon without ropes to find the standard descent route, realized I did need someone with gear or an ice axe to get me down. I agree that calling SAR should be a last resort, but in the end, I can't really think of any other way I could have been brought down. Even if Noah had made it down, he probably would have called SAR if I hadn't.
But yes, I agree with all of the above advice - even the advice that, though not indicated in my reply or the TR, we had taken (clothing, etc)
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:53 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: From a friendhttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
KevinCraig - Aug 11, 2009 12:15 am - Hasn't voted
My added $0.02Thoth is correct. I am not piling on, but trying to give you good advice and keep you alive. Like everyone, I have made my share of mistakes, I have witnessed accidents, I've lost friends, and I have friends who work SAR whom I'd rather not lose. However, early in my career, as my friend above suggests, I tried push my limits slowly and in relatively controlled situations. The Bells were among my last 14ers and climbs which I undertook only after getting advanced training in mountaineering, rock climbing, self rescue and first aid. You may not appreciate it now, but the fact that you think you only made 2 mistakes is pretty much iron clad proof that you didn't have the experience to be where you were when you were. As with most accidents in all contexts, yours was the result of a long string of seemingly minor (and, in isolation, would truly have been minor) errors that built upon each other and narrowed your possible choices until the accident was inevitable. Why anyone from SAR would tell you otherwise I can only guess, but could have something to do with it not being the best time to examine the incident in detail (as perhaps now isn't either). It's demonstrably true however that, to take one example, if you were near hypothermic that you didn't have enough layers with you. Or, to take another, if you felt your available choices were to die descending an icy slope or die by lightning strike (as noted above the least likely of the two by a lot), you either don't have enough experience with weather, didn't turn around when you should, or didn't consider potential escape routes you might have to take when packing gear for the climb. These are truths obvious on their face.
But whatever. Glad you're alive and hope you stay that way. Take from my advice whatever positive that you can.
markhyams - Aug 11, 2009 2:27 am - Hasn't voted
advice, please take itI am glad you two are alive. You both got very lucky not sliding to your deaths in the couloir. As stated above, a rescue is predicated not by doing everything right save for one wrong decision, but by a string of small, seemingly inconsequential choices made starting from when one leaves the trailhead.
My take:
Rain at 2am would mean for me that the traverse was a no-go. Sure, maybe give Maroon Peak a shot, and call it good if you make the summit. From your photos it is clear that the weather was not “fine” until you hit the saddle. Upper level thin cloud cover (and rain during the night) is usually a sure sign of instability in the atmosphere which leads almost always to severe storms, usually earlier in the day than the typical 2 or 3pm Colorado thunderstorm.
To push the weather envelope on a route such as this without having done the route before was another mistake. Sure some long-haired locals could pull of the Bells traverse in just about any conditions. Aron Ralston climbed them in the winter from the Bell Cord Couloir, i.e. he returned to the saddle after climbing each peak, so he did the traverse TWICE in one day, covered in snow. When I stood on the summit of Maroon Peak in 1994, I watched a guy do the traverse from North Maroon in about 45 minutes. When he arrived on the summit, he had a full overnight pack (about 40 pounds maybe?), and when he arrived he told me he was planning on sleeping on the summit, and that it was his seventh time across the traverse. My point is that while the traverse is hard, it is a route that is routinely done all the time, sometimes in much harder conditions than you encountered.
I would also wager that most people who attempt the traverse have climbed at least one of the Bells prior to that attempt, so they can know their descent route.
What it really boils down to is that the weather was iffy for the day, but you decided to go for it anyway. To remain safe in that scenario, you better have an extensive mountain tool kit for the terrain on which you will be. In this case that means snowed or iced up third and fourth class rock. As stated before, a dusting of snow on third class ledges (retracing your steps from the saddle) should not have been such a deterrent considering the day’s sketchy weather.
Finally I never want to squelch anyone’s dreams, but you write on your profile: “I'm a senior in High School with my life planned out completely.” This kind of attitude scares me. This statement combined with your reaction to the criticism you have received from this trip report make me think you will not see your 25th birthday. Instead of reading the books from the famous guys about climbing all of those Himalayan giants, perhaps reading the last fifteen or twenty years of Accidents in North American Mountaineering would serve you well.
You list your training peaks. I would add about twenty years of consistent winter mountaineering to that list before I attempted an 8000er in the winter. Maybe climb all the Colorado 14ers in the winter too. Do some 6000 and 7000ers in the winter. Winter climbing is REALLY hard. Plus have you noticed that the successful high-altitude climbers are almost all over 35? There is a physiological reason for this. Our endurance peaks in our late thirties. You are a very young man. You have plenty of time!
Be safe,
Mark
Kevin8020 - Aug 11, 2009 3:58 am - Hasn't voted
Re: advice, please take itFirst off, thanks for the way you wrote that. I appreciate your attitude.
I agree with what you said regarding the weather. I should have seen the overnight rain as a sign of atmosphere. It didn't even cross my mind truthfully... and that's not good. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "upper-level thin cloud cover." In fact, we had very blue skies until about our summit time when we did start to see building, which again, I thought nothing off seeing as it was moving away. I realize now too that that can change. This was really an unfortunate mountain to really learn how the weather can change in Colorado.
Part of me is curious what the correct route from South Maroon to the saddle is. We were following some cairns that took us into some class 4 terrain that I was not a fan of... and dreaded reclimbing when slick. A matter of perspective and the gear I had, yes.
(And I have no comments on the part about Noah... that's him...)
I do appreciate your response and the responses of others so long as it's done in an informed manner and with a bit of respect. I'm not against criticism - I learned a lot from Mark's response particularly. It's just hard to have someone forcefully saying that "we took things too lightly" and we lack "knowledge and judgement" when we probably realized those things in facing death. It's like rubbing it in our faces, and that doesn't do anything but anger people. What helps is people who can give the constructive criticism that we can put into practice (Mark's advice and Kevin's earlier bullet list). Noah may react differently, but that's how I feel (I'm a teenager and must semi-selfishly note that I wasn't hypothermic or even close to it... just saying)
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:54 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: advice, please take ithttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
mtnjam - Aug 11, 2009 7:43 am - Hasn't voted
ExperienceGuys, glad you made it. You not only survived, but I am sure that you have had to replay your survival many times.
This summer my wife and I were doing Wilson Peak and Mount Wilson together, car to car from Navajo Lake. After doing Wilson Peak early, we started on Mount Wilson. Clouds built as we climbed and we were caught in a storm at 14,000 foot (before 11 am). We stopped, removed metal objects (axe, poles, etc.), put on all our clothes, found a good sitting spot - exposed but safe, and hunkered down sitting on our packs. For over an hour and a half the storm blasted all around us. When the storm subsided a bit we ran to the summit and then made a safe descent.
The story was to emphasize the age old practice of hunkering down. We always pack gear for emergency situations, but unfortunately the knowledge to use the equipment doesn't fit in the pack.
There are no shortcuts. Sorry.
Oh, the Bells are not deadly, that sign is just to scare away people who do not belong on the mountains. What is deadly is bad decisions on any mountains, anywhere. Always climb like there is no SPOT or rescue available.
Good luck in your future adventures.
noahs213 - Oct 28, 2010 12:00 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Experiencehttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
scotthsu - Aug 11, 2009 12:06 pm - Voted 10/10
PM sentGood luck to you and your friends.
noahs213 - Oct 28, 2010 12:00 am - Hasn't voted
Re: PM senthttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
RyanHalsey1 - Aug 11, 2009 4:44 pm - Voted 10/10
SafeI'm just glad my climbing parnter is safe. Gotta get ready for the upcoming summers!!!
noahs213 - Aug 11, 2009 5:47 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: SafeAmen to that brother!
DisgustingDan - Aug 12, 2009 2:08 am - Hasn't voted
Rare OpportunityI'm very happy to hear that you guys made it back safe!
It's not too often people have an experience quite like yours and come back to to tell the tale. Furthermore, you've gotten a ton of really solid advice rooted in hundreds of collective years of climbing, not a lot of people get this opportunity either. Take heed.
The only thing I would add to this sea of advice is this:
Know the Mountain. Not the route you plan to climb; Know the ENTIRE Mountain. Many hikers and climbers have found themselves in very serious trouble in the Mountains simply because they neglected to bone up on the Mountain they were on. Even a seemingly benign mountain like Quandary or Bierstadt (in keeping with the Colorado 14ers theme) have seen tragic accidents because a scared hiker or climber was looking for a quick way down.
Point is: almost every mountain you'll find yourself on has at least one scary face/ridge/couloir, and on Mountains like the Bells... ...Well most of their faces/ridges/couloirs could be classified under the scary category. You guys chose to head down Bell Chord Couloir in August. What you didn't know about the Mountain is this: Bell Chord has been known to form an alpine ice climb in late summer and early fall. A couple weeks later and you may have found a thousand feet of ice in that thing, and with a dusting of snow you could have ended up in real trouble. You need to know your bailing options and the terrain all around before you head out on any Mountain, not to mention a technical/semi-technical Mountain.
Best of luck to you guys in the future!
One last note: I feel pretty confident a trekking pole wouldn't hold a real fall... Then again I've never tried it, so shoot, maybe it could. A better choice may have been just a really solid stance by the belayer. But I wasn't there, so maybe that wasn't possible. Life gave you lemons and you guys made lemonade. We've all made mistakes and hopefully we've all learned from them.
Take Care,
See you in the hills.
noahs213 - Oct 27, 2010 11:55 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Rare Opportunityhttp://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=674905&confirm_post=12
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