This is from the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC)'s page on Lorentz National Park: "Puncak Jaya’s summit consists of several peaks (Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, Meren 4,808m)". This reference was cited on SP back in September 2001.
You are right John but my information is other, believe me: if you will have it you will think my info is useful. According to WCMC, my info is not wrong at all because Carstenz Pyramid and Ngga Pulu are moutains themselves. Thank you for telling me Meren exists as a peak and for the reference (I was not a member then). Gracias however.
Carstensz Pyramid is the western name for Puncak Jaya and it's the name of the highest peak in the range. Meren is dutch for 'lakes' and is the name of the old glacier and the valley it ends in; there is no peak named Meren.
How would you account for the discrepancy between what you wrote and what the UN claims, namely that Puncak Jaya has "several peaks" including Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, and Meren 4,808m. I don't think the UN is infallible but it seems we have a mystery on our hands. If there is no peak named Meren then what is the 4808m peak the UN calls by that name? I'd also be interested in the source of your information just out of curiousity :-) Perhaps someone needs to do more research (I'm not necessarily volunteering)?
Well, as the famous Chronicler Xavier Eguskitza said: mountain statistics are not an exact science!
Let me share an answer I once gave to a site visitor who asked about the 5030m high ghost mountain appearing on many maps:
"(...) actually this is problem with a double background:
Close to Carstensz Pyramid is another peak that is called Ngga Pulu/Poeloe or Jaya Peak/Puncak Jaya. It was measured during the first expeditions to the mountain ranges: 5130m (see also the maps section of the Carstensz pages).
But later expeditions and more detailed measuring proved that Carstensz was the highest peak with 4884m; This does not mean that the first explorers were wrong, as Ngga Pulu is a snow peak (see the picture taken on the summit on the Carstensz pages) and has melted considerably in the last century, so it could have been true that it was the highest peak in the 1930's, but now it has melted so much it is surely lower than Carstensz (whose summit is rock, so it won't melt...).
Unfortunately the 5130m measurement is still mentioned on most of the maps available these days; even worse, it is contributed to Carstensz Pyramid."
My research comes from a few sources: my own observations on the spot and talks with local guides and the two leading books: "To the eternal snow of Tropical Netherlands" (dutch) from the 1930's and Harrer's book: I come from the stone age. (Harrer was the climber who first ascended the pyramid and many other peaks.
I am not sure which peak the UN is referring to?!? Where did you find the reference? There are many different names for the peaks, Harrer named them after weekdays...
Any help or comments can be posted on the 7summits forum!
Thanks Diego; for you who don't have time tocheck teh page out, it's about the galial retreat all over the world, sad but true.
This is from that page:
"Meren, Carstenz, and Northwall Firn Glaciers
Irian Jaya, Indonesia
Rate of retreat increased to 45 meters a year in 1995, up from only 30 meters a year in 1936. Glacial area shrank by some 84 percent between 1936 and 1995. Meren Glacier is now close to disappearing altogether. "
The walking route from Ilaga is closed until further notice; now the only way to get to Carstensz (legally) is to fly with a helicopter to the highlands, close to the Carstensz Basecamp.
Mail us if you are interested in one of these trips.
as also posted under "getting there": the walking route from Ilaga is closed until further notice; now the only way to get to Carstensz (legally) is to fly with a helicopter to the highlands, close to the Carstensz Basecamp.
Mail us if you are interested in one of these trips.
Hello - when I went to Carstenz in 2000 we managed to hitch a helicopter ride from Timika (south of Freeport mine) to highlands with Indonesian army (wasn't cheap!). From there (an outpost called Hoya to locals) we managed after a week of negotiations to get guides to Illaga trail... Took three days. As far as we know were were the first to go that way. The path is virtually non existent and your life is put completely in the hands of your Amungme tribe guides.
Very muddy, Very wet, Very different. Had an excellent time and summited with Gavin Bate (www.adventurealternative.com) and seven summiteer record holder Andy Salter.
Is Puncak Jaya the massif and Carstensz Pyramid, Ngga Pulu, and Meren the peaks?
Diego Sahagún - May 30, 2002 12:49 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled Comment
The mountains form Sudirman Range, Puncak Jaya is the Indonesian name for Carstensz Pyramid, Naga Pulu is the third best known peak there. I have Meren as the name of a valley but could be also the name of a mountain.
This is from the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC)'s page on Lorentz National Park: "Puncak Jaya’s summit consists of several peaks (Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, Meren 4,808m)". This reference was cited on SP back in September 2001.
You are right John but my information is other, believe me: if you will have it you will think my info is useful. According to WCMC, my info is not wrong at all because Carstenz Pyramid and Ngga Pulu are moutains themselves. Thank you for telling me Meren exists as a peak and for the reference (I was not a member then). Gracias however.
Carstensz Pyramid is the western name for Puncak Jaya and it's the name of the highest peak in the range. Meren is dutch for 'lakes' and is the name of the old glacier and the valley it ends in; there is no peak named Meren.
John - May 30, 2002 9:38 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentIs Puncak Jaya the massif and Carstensz Pyramid, Ngga Pulu, and Meren the peaks?
John - May 30, 2002 2:51 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThis is from the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC)'s page on Lorentz National Park: "Puncak Jaya’s summit consists of several peaks (Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, Meren 4,808m)". This reference was cited on SP back in September 2001.
John - May 30, 2002 2:52 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThere's a problem with the link above on: page on Lorentz National Park - this link should work :-)
Diego Sahagún - May 30, 2002 3:31 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYou are right John but my information is other, believe me: if you will have it you will think my info is useful. According to WCMC, my info is not wrong at all because Carstenz Pyramid and Ngga Pulu are moutains themselves. Thank you for telling me Meren exists as a peak and for the reference (I was not a member then). Gracias however.
PD: your link worked finally :-D
7summits - Jun 4, 2002 3:45 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHi All,
Carstensz Pyramid is the western name for Puncak Jaya and it's the name of the highest peak in the range. Meren is dutch for 'lakes' and is the name of the old glacier and the valley it ends in; there is no peak named Meren.
Best regards,
Harry
www.7summits.com
John - Jun 4, 2002 4:19 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHello Harry,
How would you account for the discrepancy between what you wrote and what the UN claims, namely that Puncak Jaya has "several peaks" including Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, and Meren 4,808m. I don't think the UN is infallible but it seems we have a mystery on our hands. If there is no peak named Meren then what is the 4808m peak the UN calls by that name? I'd also be interested in the source of your information just out of curiousity :-) Perhaps someone needs to do more research (I'm not necessarily volunteering)?
7summits - Jun 7, 2002 6:16 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentWell, as the famous Chronicler Xavier Eguskitza said: mountain statistics are not an exact science!
Let me share an answer I once gave to a site visitor who asked about the 5030m high ghost mountain appearing on many maps:
"(...) actually this is problem with a double background:
Close to Carstensz Pyramid is another peak that is called Ngga Pulu/Poeloe or Jaya Peak/Puncak Jaya. It was measured during the first expeditions to the mountain ranges: 5130m (see also the maps section of the Carstensz pages).
But later expeditions and more detailed measuring proved that Carstensz was the highest peak with 4884m; This does not mean that the first explorers were wrong, as Ngga Pulu is a snow peak (see the picture taken on the summit on the Carstensz pages) and has melted considerably in the last century, so it could have been true that it was the highest peak in the 1930's, but now it has melted so much it is surely lower than Carstensz (whose summit is rock, so it won't melt...).
Unfortunately the 5130m measurement is still mentioned on most of the maps available these days; even worse, it is contributed to Carstensz Pyramid."
My research comes from a few sources: my own observations on the spot and talks with local guides and the two leading books: "To the eternal snow of Tropical Netherlands" (dutch) from the 1930's and Harrer's book: I come from the stone age. (Harrer was the climber who first ascended the pyramid and many other peaks.
See also the maps from both books, I have placed them on my site, section Carstensz, subsection maps
I am not sure which peak the UN is referring to?!? Where did you find the reference? There are many different names for the peaks, Harrer named them after weekdays...
Any help or comments can be posted on the 7summits forum!
Thanks and keep climbing, best regards,
Harry
Diego Sahagún - Jun 7, 2002 3:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled Commenthttp://www.worldwatch.org/alerts/000306t.html
7summits - Jun 10, 2002 4:31 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThanks Diego; for you who don't have time tocheck teh page out, it's about the galial retreat all over the world, sad but true.
This is from that page:
"Meren, Carstenz, and Northwall Firn Glaciers
Irian Jaya, Indonesia
Rate of retreat increased to 45 meters a year in 1995, up from only 30 meters a year in 1936. Glacial area shrank by some 84 percent between 1936 and 1995. Meren Glacier is now close to disappearing altogether. "
7summits - Aug 25, 2005 7:00 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYes, permits are being issued again. Almost all organisers (Mountaintrip.com, Alpine Ascents) ask $18,500 now, some ask $12,500 (7summits.com)
The prices are so high due to long helicopter approaches needed to fly to Zebra wall, just outside the mining area.
7summits - Nov 12, 2001 7:24 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThe walking route from Ilaga is closed until further notice; now the only way to get to Carstensz (legally) is to fly with a helicopter to the highlands, close to the Carstensz Basecamp.
Mail us if you are interested in one of these trips.
best regards,
keep climbing,
Harry
www.7summits.com
7summits - Nov 12, 2001 7:25 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled Commentas also posted under "getting there": the walking route from Ilaga is closed until further notice; now the only way to get to Carstensz (legally) is to fly with a helicopter to the highlands, close to the Carstensz Basecamp.
Mail us if you are interested in one of these trips.
best regards,
keep climbing,
Harry
www.7summits.com
Rsheane - Apr 14, 2002 9:27 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHello - when I went to Carstenz in 2000 we managed to hitch a helicopter ride from Timika (south of Freeport mine) to highlands with Indonesian army (wasn't cheap!). From there (an outpost called Hoya to locals) we managed after a week of negotiations to get guides to Illaga trail... Took three days. As far as we know were were the first to go that way. The path is virtually non existent and your life is put completely in the hands of your Amungme tribe guides.
Very muddy, Very wet, Very different. Had an excellent time and summited with Gavin Bate (www.adventurealternative.com) and seven summiteer record holder Andy Salter.
gordonye - May 30, 2002 9:35 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentMaybe should mention that Puncak Jaya is the same mountain.
John - May 30, 2002 9:38 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentIs Puncak Jaya the massif and Carstensz Pyramid, Ngga Pulu, and Meren the peaks?
Diego Sahagún - May 30, 2002 12:49 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThe mountains form Sudirman Range, Puncak Jaya is the Indonesian name for Carstensz Pyramid, Naga Pulu is the third best known peak there. I have Meren as the name of a valley but could be also the name of a mountain.
John - May 30, 2002 2:51 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThis is from the United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) World Conservation Monitoring Centre (WCMC)'s page on Lorentz National Park: "Puncak Jaya’s summit consists of several peaks (Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, Meren 4,808m)". This reference was cited on SP back in September 2001.
John - May 30, 2002 2:52 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThere's a problem with the link above on: page on Lorentz National Park - this link should work :-)
Diego Sahagún - May 30, 2002 3:31 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYou are right John but my information is other, believe me: if you will have it you will think my info is useful. According to WCMC, my info is not wrong at all because Carstenz Pyramid and Ngga Pulu are moutains themselves. Thank you for telling me Meren exists as a peak and for the reference (I was not a member then). Gracias however.
PD: your link worked finally :-D
7summits - Jun 4, 2002 3:45 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHi All,
Carstensz Pyramid is the western name for Puncak Jaya and it's the name of the highest peak in the range. Meren is dutch for 'lakes' and is the name of the old glacier and the valley it ends in; there is no peak named Meren.
Best regards,
Harry
www.7summits.com