Well, compared to what's behind the links from Mathias (see below), the history section that I wrote is the short, short version. Nothing wrong with what I wrote, but there is a whole lot more - fortunately, we have Wikipedia to read all about it :-).
I'm glad to have learned that my personal hypothesis is more or less supported, although Tolomei was far more involved with the region than any far-away bureaucrat in Rome.
Your thoughts about the origin of the italian name are probably right. The name is likely to be one of the many creations of Ettore Tolomei. I've also written something about this topic on my Klockerkarkopf/Vetta d'Italia page.
Thanks for the links! I just read the article on Ettore Tolomei and your own page. Very interesting indeed! I agree that he's a likely candidate to have invented the Italian name.
I must say, I had no idea that it all started that early. I mean, I knew that there had been a strong drive to Italianize the region, but had always thought that that started after WW I.
As a visitor to the region, I've learned that there are still some sensitive issues. I had an interesting conversation about it with some local inhabitants of Sulden just last year. The situation is pretty normal nowadays and German is now proudly spoken again - a good thing for me, because my Italian is very poor. I also noticed that no local ever spontaneously uses an Italian name for a peak, village and so on - but visitors from other regions of Italy do.
And, perhaps indirectly as a result of Tolomei's actions, you find Italian names on Google maps and various other places. For this particular peak, it's even stranger in Google maps: 'Cima d'Anima' is positioned where it should be, but there is also an incorrectly placed label 'Hinterer Seelenkogel' nearby. It's not even on a peak!
You might like to visit Messner's museum in Bolzano. In addition to some neat climbing history, there is a whole section on independence for South Tyrol. Italy granted them many concessions that allow them to basically run the place themselves. I was amazed that in the 1960s feelings were strong enough that there were even bombings.
Mmm, that would be a problem: whenever I'm in northern Italy, I want to play outside!
You might say, go there when it's raining ... Well, I've been there a few times and the weather was often pretty good.
Sure, I've been soaked by an afternoon downpour once, but these things happen. It started as a fine day anyway. I also remember a couple of days spent rock climbing on short routes under an overhanging wall that kept us dry nicely. I really like that part of the world :-).
As it was translated after 1918 (wrongly), I think it should be written AnimE (supposed to be a plural name), and not AnimA. Apart from this small detail, a perfect page
You could well be right. I've seen the Italian name written in several different ways:
Cima della Anima
Cima delle Anima
Cima dell'Anima
Cima delle Anime
My Italian is very poor, but I already wondered whether the spelling Cima delle AnimA was syntactically correct Italian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have expected either dell'Anima or delle Anime. However, as there is no law saying that geographical names have to be syntactically correct, I didn't pursue it.
I've had another look at it just now, and so far concluded that the correct Italian name is probably either Cima delle Anime, as you wrote, or Cima dell'Anima.
Assuming that, for the translation, the German name Seelenkogel was interpreted as being derived from the German word Seele (singular), Cima dell'Anima would be the most logical name, but if it was interpreted as if it was derived from Seelen (plural), it would be Cima delle Anime.
mvs - Feb 28, 2011 3:33 pm - Voted 10/10
Nice historyThanks for the page and the history. I've often wondered about those Italian names of the peaks. They do seem to have been applied carelessly.
rgg - Feb 28, 2011 7:00 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Nice historyWell, compared to what's behind the links from Mathias (see below), the history section that I wrote is the short, short version. Nothing wrong with what I wrote, but there is a whole lot more - fortunately, we have Wikipedia to read all about it :-).
I'm glad to have learned that my personal hypothesis is more or less supported, although Tolomei was far more involved with the region than any far-away bureaucrat in Rome.
Mathias Zehring - Feb 28, 2011 4:08 pm - Voted 10/10
Good page!Your thoughts about the origin of the italian name are probably right. The name is likely to be one of the many creations of Ettore Tolomei. I've also written something about this topic on my Klockerkarkopf/Vetta d'Italia page.
rgg - Feb 28, 2011 6:42 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Good page!Thanks for the links! I just read the article on Ettore Tolomei and your own page. Very interesting indeed! I agree that he's a likely candidate to have invented the Italian name.
I must say, I had no idea that it all started that early. I mean, I knew that there had been a strong drive to Italianize the region, but had always thought that that started after WW I.
As a visitor to the region, I've learned that there are still some sensitive issues. I had an interesting conversation about it with some local inhabitants of Sulden just last year. The situation is pretty normal nowadays and German is now proudly spoken again - a good thing for me, because my Italian is very poor. I also noticed that no local ever spontaneously uses an Italian name for a peak, village and so on - but visitors from other regions of Italy do.
And, perhaps indirectly as a result of Tolomei's actions, you find Italian names on Google maps and various other places. For this particular peak, it's even stranger in Google maps: 'Cima d'Anima' is positioned where it should be, but there is also an incorrectly placed label 'Hinterer Seelenkogel' nearby. It's not even on a peak!
mvs - Mar 1, 2011 3:59 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Good page!You might like to visit Messner's museum in Bolzano. In addition to some neat climbing history, there is a whole section on independence for South Tyrol. Italy granted them many concessions that allow them to basically run the place themselves. I was amazed that in the 1960s feelings were strong enough that there were even bombings.
rgg - Mar 1, 2011 4:10 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Good page!Mmm, that would be a problem: whenever I'm in northern Italy, I want to play outside!
You might say, go there when it's raining ... Well, I've been there a few times and the weather was often pretty good.
Sure, I've been soaked by an afternoon downpour once, but these things happen. It started as a fine day anyway. I also remember a couple of days spent rock climbing on short routes under an overhanging wall that kept us dry nicely. I really like that part of the world :-).
Claude Mauguier - Mar 18, 2011 6:23 am - Voted 10/10
Italian nameAs it was translated after 1918 (wrongly), I think it should be written AnimE (supposed to be a plural name), and not AnimA. Apart from this small detail, a perfect page
rgg - Mar 18, 2011 10:35 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Italian nameYou could well be right. I've seen the Italian name written in several different ways:
Cima della Anima
Cima delle Anima
Cima dell'Anima
Cima delle Anime
My Italian is very poor, but I already wondered whether the spelling Cima delle AnimA was syntactically correct Italian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have expected either dell'Anima or delle Anime. However, as there is no law saying that geographical names have to be syntactically correct, I didn't pursue it.
I've had another look at it just now, and so far concluded that the correct Italian name is probably either Cima delle Anime, as you wrote, or Cima dell'Anima.
Assuming that, for the translation, the German name Seelenkogel was interpreted as being derived from the German word Seele (singular), Cima dell'Anima would be the most logical name, but if it was interpreted as if it was derived from Seelen (plural), it would be Cima delle Anime.
I'll dig a bit deeper and get back on this.
rgg - Mar 21, 2011 11:38 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Italian nameI've digged, and changed it to Cima delle Anime, because that's the name used on the Italian national park map as well as in many books.
wuedesau - Jun 11, 2011 12:17 pm - Voted 10/10
SeelenkogelI assume that the name derives from the small lakes (Seelen) around.
Cheers, Klaus
rgg - Jun 11, 2011 1:08 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: SeelenkogelYep, that´s true.