Mighty Mount Powell stands at the north end of the Gore Range in north central Colorado.
Hi Aaron. The only thing I might change about the page is the statement above. Powell is actually more southern than northern Gore Range, but could be considered to be part of the Central or "south-central" section of the Gore Range. The Gore Range actually extends all the way to Rabbit Ears Pass, just SE of Steamboat Springs, and way north of Powell. The mid-point is approximately at the Colorado River, putting Powell, way to the south of the center of the Gore Range.
Perhaps it could be said that Powell: "Mighty Mount Powell stands at the north end of the Eagles Nest Wilderness in north central Colorado" instead of north end of the Gore Range.
Aaron Johnson - Mar 19, 2006 12:47 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Central Gores
Hi Scott.
I see the basis of your point by looking at the TOPO map of the area. They do call it the Gore Range north of the river and Gore Pass is also there. But why would they do this? A river passing through a range does not a range make. At least, that is my logic behind it. And does this mean that the Mount Zirkel Wilderness is also the Gore Range simply because the range extends on into Wyoming? No. On the map, it's the Sierra Madre (a California name, of all things). Why the change in the name of the same range?
Now then, tiny Tenmile Creek (not a river), passes through the range, which for all intents and purposes, is a continuation of the Gores. Only on the south side of the creek, the range is suddenly no longer the Gores. It's the Tenmile Range! The Gores do extend further south via Vail Pass, though, so I can buy that. Those mountains, such as Shrine and Copper, are part of the Gores.
My point: Because a map states something does not make it so. For most, ranges, by definition, start or begin from a low point, or for higher designations, from a pass. A stream, or a river, of all things, passing completely through a range would certainly indicate a low and appropriate dividing spot for me. I submit back to you that even though the map says Gore Range north of the Colorado, it's technically not a range because of the presence of Gore Pass and a full fledged river.
A third criteria I like to apply to Colorado's ranges is terrain above timberline. This is a strong indicator of whether a range is indeed a range. With this application, Powell is located at the north end of the range, with much wooded land intervening before we have another uplift above timberline in the Zirkels and the Sierra Madre.
Now of course, there are many exceptions. By this application, the San Miguels are their own range, but they are regarded by most folks as part of the San Juans. For the sake of argument, let's say the San Miguels are their own range. But then we have a problem. Little Lone Cone cannot be its own range!
However, the La Platas are certainly their own range like the Zirkels, with similar conditions between them and the San Juans. Yet they are considered by most, including the TOPO, to be a separate range.
So because of a RIVER (which begins elsewhere and passes through the Gore range), I hold to my stance that the north end of the Gores is Eagles Nest and Powell. To suggest otherwise would, in my opinion, suggest the Zirkel area is not its own range (which I would not want because to me, it would diminish the importance of that range's status).
Check out the thread I raised to the top of the Colorado forum. We had a great discussion about this, and primarily, how to deal with the mess that is the San Juans. I think you'd enjoy it if you haven't seen it already.
I look forward to your reply. It's fun discussing this stuff.
I see the basis of your point by looking at the TOPO map of the area.
Aha.
It more than just the topo map. Keep in mind the namesake peak in the range, Gore Mountain is located well to the north of the Colorado (the mountain was named after a hunter). See below. Gore Pass is also well north of the river.
They do call it the Gore Range north of the river and Gore Pass is also there. But why would they do this? A river passing through a range does not a range make. At least, that is my logic behind it.
I don't know why they (USGS) chose the boundaries where they did. The river would make a logical boundary for a different range, in my opinion. Rivers do in fact cut through many ranges, though. Some good examples are the Himalayas and Wasatch Range, both of which are cut by rivers. The Himalayas don't form a continental divide, thus all rivers in south Tibet actually cut through the Himalayas. The Wasatch are cut by rivers from the Uinta Mountians. This is because the Uintas are older than the Wasatch, and those rivers existed before the Wasatch did. The Cascade Mountains are also cut all the way through by rivers, including the Grandaddy of all rivers in the west, the Columbia.
And does this mean that the Mount Zirkel Wilderness is also the Gore Range simply because the range extends on into Wyoming?No. On the map, it's the Sierra Madre (a California name, of all things). Why the change in the name of the same range?
Actually, Mount Zirkel is in the Park Range. Sierra Madre is NW of Zirkel area.
My point: Because a map states something does not make it so. For most, ranges, by definition, start or begin from a low point, or for higher designations, from a pass.
Good point, but if this is the case, the namesake mountain of the range (Gore Mountain) is actually north of the Colorado River, so that is the "real Gore Range". We should call the range to the south "Eagles Nest Range" or divide them into "Northern Gore Range" and "Southern Gore Range"
A stream, or a river, of all things, passing completely through a range would certainly indicate a low and appropriate dividing spot for me.
Me too, but I didn't make the maps.
I submit back to you that even though the map says Gore Range north of the Colorado, it's technically not a range because of the presence of Gore Pass and a full fledged river.
It could be a seperate range, but either way still a range.
A third criteria I like to apply to Colorado's ranges is terrain above timberline. This is a strong indicator of whether a range is indeed a range.
This one I have to disagree with. Some of the most spectacular mountain ranges around don't even rise to timberline. Take the House Range for example (see SP page on Notch Peak). Other than perhaps the Sierra Nevada, no range in the lower 48 matches the escarpment on the west side of the House Range. None. Well known walls and faces such as the Diamond, NE face of Capitol, or Lone Peak (Wasatch) are all above timberline, but would be dwarfed by faces in the House Range. The House Range is a range regardless if it is above timberline. Even the famous El Capitan and Half Dome, for example, are below timberline.
With this application, Powell is located at the north end of the range
Maybe a range, but not the Gore Range on the map. Perhaps it should be the Eagles Nest Range.
I hold to my stance that the north end of the Gores is Eagles Nest and Powell.
North end of a range, maybe, but don't forget about Meridian Peak and Elliot Ridge. They are above timberline and north of Eagles Nest/Powell. Also, don't forget that the "real Gore Range" is north of the Colorado, even if the area to the south is a seperate range.
To suggest otherwise would, in my opinion, suggest the Zirkel area is not its own range (which I would not want because to me, it would diminish the importance of that range's status).
Ranges in the area get wishy washy. Mt. Zirkel was in the Park Range group, maintained by myself, but I zapped it so it wouldn't be visible until I am done. Zirkel is always thought of as the Park Range around here, and on the maps.
Check out the thread I raised to the top of the Colorado forum. It's fun discussing this stuff.
Actually, neither of you brought up the real, and proper method for distinguishing between mountain ranges and that's the geology (Aaron touched on it regarding separate uplifts).
In actuality, the Park (Zirkel), Gore, Tenmile and mosquito ranges are all one uplift and technically should all be called the greater Park Range. I have started, and invite everyone to call the entire thing the Greater Park Range. The "boundaries" that were given to separate the Gore, Tenmile and Mosquito sub-ranges are ludicrous and in no way justify naming the ranges separate names. The large lower gap between the Gore and Zirkel wilderness is still an uplift, just not as high, and this entire chain of mountains are geologically the same.
I agree that most of it is the same uplift and that the ranges are similar geologically, but there are some interesting anomalies in the northern Gores. The northern Gores actually have a lot of lava plateaus, volcanic plugs, and granitic intrusions. Depending on where you draw the boundary of the Park and Elkhead Mountains, there are also some laccoliths as well.
Scott - Mar 18, 2006 11:20 pm - Voted 10/10
Central GoresMighty Mount Powell stands at the north end of the Gore Range in north central Colorado.
Hi Aaron. The only thing I might change about the page is the statement above. Powell is actually more southern than northern Gore Range, but could be considered to be part of the Central or "south-central" section of the Gore Range. The Gore Range actually extends all the way to Rabbit Ears Pass, just SE of Steamboat Springs, and way north of Powell. The mid-point is approximately at the Colorado River, putting Powell, way to the south of the center of the Gore Range.
Perhaps it could be said that Powell: "Mighty Mount Powell stands at the north end of the Eagles Nest Wilderness in north central Colorado" instead of north end of the Gore Range.
Aaron Johnson - Mar 19, 2006 12:47 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Central GoresHi Scott.
I see the basis of your point by looking at the TOPO map of the area. They do call it the Gore Range north of the river and Gore Pass is also there. But why would they do this? A river passing through a range does not a range make. At least, that is my logic behind it. And does this mean that the Mount Zirkel Wilderness is also the Gore Range simply because the range extends on into Wyoming? No. On the map, it's the Sierra Madre (a California name, of all things). Why the change in the name of the same range?
Now then, tiny Tenmile Creek (not a river), passes through the range, which for all intents and purposes, is a continuation of the Gores. Only on the south side of the creek, the range is suddenly no longer the Gores. It's the Tenmile Range! The Gores do extend further south via Vail Pass, though, so I can buy that. Those mountains, such as Shrine and Copper, are part of the Gores.
My point: Because a map states something does not make it so. For most, ranges, by definition, start or begin from a low point, or for higher designations, from a pass. A stream, or a river, of all things, passing completely through a range would certainly indicate a low and appropriate dividing spot for me. I submit back to you that even though the map says Gore Range north of the Colorado, it's technically not a range because of the presence of Gore Pass and a full fledged river.
A third criteria I like to apply to Colorado's ranges is terrain above timberline. This is a strong indicator of whether a range is indeed a range. With this application, Powell is located at the north end of the range, with much wooded land intervening before we have another uplift above timberline in the Zirkels and the Sierra Madre.
Now of course, there are many exceptions. By this application, the San Miguels are their own range, but they are regarded by most folks as part of the San Juans. For the sake of argument, let's say the San Miguels are their own range. But then we have a problem. Little Lone Cone cannot be its own range!
However, the La Platas are certainly their own range like the Zirkels, with similar conditions between them and the San Juans. Yet they are considered by most, including the TOPO, to be a separate range.
So because of a RIVER (which begins elsewhere and passes through the Gore range), I hold to my stance that the north end of the Gores is Eagles Nest and Powell. To suggest otherwise would, in my opinion, suggest the Zirkel area is not its own range (which I would not want because to me, it would diminish the importance of that range's status).
Check out the thread I raised to the top of the Colorado forum. We had a great discussion about this, and primarily, how to deal with the mess that is the San Juans. I think you'd enjoy it if you haven't seen it already.
I look forward to your reply. It's fun discussing this stuff.
Scott - Mar 20, 2006 1:10 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Central GoresI see the basis of your point by looking at the TOPO map of the area.
Aha.
It more than just the topo map. Keep in mind the namesake peak in the range, Gore Mountain is located well to the north of the Colorado (the mountain was named after a hunter). See below. Gore Pass is also well north of the river.
Map-Gore Mountain-namesake of the Gore Range
They do call it the Gore Range north of the river and Gore Pass is also there. But why would they do this? A river passing through a range does not a range make. At least, that is my logic behind it.
I don't know why they (USGS) chose the boundaries where they did. The river would make a logical boundary for a different range, in my opinion. Rivers do in fact cut through many ranges, though. Some good examples are the Himalayas and Wasatch Range, both of which are cut by rivers. The Himalayas don't form a continental divide, thus all rivers in south Tibet actually cut through the Himalayas. The Wasatch are cut by rivers from the Uinta Mountians. This is because the Uintas are older than the Wasatch, and those rivers existed before the Wasatch did. The Cascade Mountains are also cut all the way through by rivers, including the Grandaddy of all rivers in the west, the Columbia.
And does this mean that the Mount Zirkel Wilderness is also the Gore Range simply because the range extends on into Wyoming?No. On the map, it's the Sierra Madre (a California name, of all things). Why the change in the name of the same range?
Actually, Mount Zirkel is in the Park Range. Sierra Madre is NW of Zirkel area.
My point: Because a map states something does not make it so. For most, ranges, by definition, start or begin from a low point, or for higher designations, from a pass.
Good point, but if this is the case, the namesake mountain of the range (Gore Mountain) is actually north of the Colorado River, so that is the "real Gore Range". We should call the range to the south "Eagles Nest Range" or divide them into "Northern Gore Range" and "Southern Gore Range"
A stream, or a river, of all things, passing completely through a range would certainly indicate a low and appropriate dividing spot for me.
Me too, but I didn't make the maps.
I submit back to you that even though the map says Gore Range north of the Colorado, it's technically not a range because of the presence of Gore Pass and a full fledged river.
It could be a seperate range, but either way still a range.
A third criteria I like to apply to Colorado's ranges is terrain above timberline. This is a strong indicator of whether a range is indeed a range.
This one I have to disagree with. Some of the most spectacular mountain ranges around don't even rise to timberline. Take the House Range for example (see SP page on Notch Peak). Other than perhaps the Sierra Nevada, no range in the lower 48 matches the escarpment on the west side of the House Range. None. Well known walls and faces such as the Diamond, NE face of Capitol, or Lone Peak (Wasatch) are all above timberline, but would be dwarfed by faces in the House Range. The House Range is a range regardless if it is above timberline. Even the famous El Capitan and Half Dome, for example, are below timberline.
With this application, Powell is located at the north end of the range
Maybe a range, but not the Gore Range on the map. Perhaps it should be the Eagles Nest Range.
I hold to my stance that the north end of the Gores is Eagles Nest and Powell.
North end of a range, maybe, but don't forget about Meridian Peak and Elliot Ridge. They are above timberline and north of Eagles Nest/Powell. Also, don't forget that the "real Gore Range" is north of the Colorado, even if the area to the south is a seperate range.
To suggest otherwise would, in my opinion, suggest the Zirkel area is not its own range (which I would not want because to me, it would diminish the importance of that range's status).
Ranges in the area get wishy washy. Mt. Zirkel was in the Park Range group, maintained by myself, but I zapped it so it wouldn't be visible until I am done. Zirkel is always thought of as the Park Range around here, and on the maps.
Check out the thread I raised to the top of the Colorado forum. It's fun discussing this stuff.
Should be fun. I will read.
Scott - Mar 20, 2006 1:17 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Central GoresHey Aaron. I'm going to start a new thread on the CO board on this very subject.
Matt Lemke - Jun 5, 2016 10:52 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Central GoresActually, neither of you brought up the real, and proper method for distinguishing between mountain ranges and that's the geology (Aaron touched on it regarding separate uplifts).
In actuality, the Park (Zirkel), Gore, Tenmile and mosquito ranges are all one uplift and technically should all be called the greater Park Range. I have started, and invite everyone to call the entire thing the Greater Park Range. The "boundaries" that were given to separate the Gore, Tenmile and Mosquito sub-ranges are ludicrous and in no way justify naming the ranges separate names. The large lower gap between the Gore and Zirkel wilderness is still an uplift, just not as high, and this entire chain of mountains are geologically the same.
Scott - Jun 7, 2016 3:28 am - Voted 10/10
Re: Central GoresI agree that most of it is the same uplift and that the ranges are similar geologically, but there are some interesting anomalies in the northern Gores. The northern Gores actually have a lot of lava plateaus, volcanic plugs, and granitic intrusions. Depending on where you draw the boundary of the Park and Elkhead Mountains, there are also some laccoliths as well.