Is the material on the Arcteryx Beta AR noticeably less durable/rugged than the Alpha SV? More a backpacking jacket than an alpine shell? Not having an REI nearby makes it tough to examine these jackets before buying.

I knew Dead Bird was expensive, but $650 for an uninsulated shell?! Is it really 3x more durable than what you can buy for under $200?

Do people actually pay retail for these high end items? Pretty easy to find 20% off coupons, past season colors, etc.

I've never owned Arcteryx, that's why I'm looking for advice.

Are pro shell jackets (Arc or any other brand) better than a $200 rain jacket - probably not. Unless you're caught in 60mph winds and whiteout conditions at 19,000 feet, then it may just save your life.

mtvalley wrote:Do people actually pay retail for these high end items? Pretty easy to find 20% off coupons, past season colors, etc.

Okay, so $520 vs. $160 -- it's still over 3x. (More generally, if X/3 = Y, then 0.8*X/3 = 0.8*Y.)

mtvalley wrote:Are pro shell jackets (Arc or any other brand) better than a $200 rain jacket - probably not. Unless you're caught in 60mph winds and whiteout conditions at 19,000 feet, then it may just save your life.

Where would you be caught climbing off-width in freezing drizzle and 60 MPH winds at 19,000 feet? I would rather save my life by just not doing that, because it sounds miserable. If you're climbing in conditions where there's enough abrasion to tear through lighter materials, it's warm enough for things to need to be completely waterproof, and you can't just set up a bivy and wait for things to suck less, maybe you need one of these super-expensive things.

High altitude mountaineering is expensive, no way around it sadly. We all like to save $$ but start cutting corners and you're gonna come home minus a few fingers/toes.

My fingertips are still sensitive from frostnip on Cotopaxi 4 months ago and I was using two of the best gloves/mittens available. Hate to think if I'd cheaped out and shopped in the bargain basement.

Guys arc makes there stuff for athletes and guides not week end warriors if you have a concern about the price then you can probably take i of your list, it's for those who want max performance out of there kit also yes it's far better than any rain shell it will be more breathable more durable, have articulation, helmet comparable, have better features, have a better hood it's better in every way but price.