2600fromatari wrote:Rick,
Your ratings are interesting. I didn't think people who have done these peaks could have such different opinions.

I'm surprised that you rank Russell (9.3) lower than White Mountain (9.5) via the main trail. Russell has double the elevation gain (and that scree slog from UBSL is nasty) and more technical.

Mt. Muir via the main trail tied with North Palisade, and higher than Thunderbolt, Sill, and Middle Palisade: I think Muir is easy-breezy while the T-Bolt and Nor-Pal is a pain having to talus hop from Agassiz to Thunderbolt Pass then go up that scree chute. I would rank Sill right below Tilli/Willi. Mid-Pal I can do in a day, but would not enjoy it. The boulder hopping from Finger Lake is a pain, and the exposure is on another level compared to Muir from the main trail.

If you don't mind, I'm curious as to how you came to your numbers. Right now, I'm guessing you rank Russell so low because it was so enjoyable for you it made the trip easy while Muir was so painfully boring boring via the Whitney Trail that you bumped it up.

mrchad9 wrote:The way I would rate peaks for difficulty is to try to estimate how many people out of a given set could make it to the top on their own. I don't think there is another way to balance length, elevation gain, technical difficulty etc without being too arbitrary. Of couse estimating who many can make it is pretty subjective in itself.

But by that rationale, I think most would agree out of a population of 2000 random people, most likely less could reach the summit block of Thunderbolt than any other peak. North Palisade and Starlight might be a close second, as none of them would have very many people make it. Williamson is a long trip, but quite of few of the sample size could probably do it if they set their mind to it.

RickF wrote:I've enjoyed this debate with friends that have been my trip partners for the California Fourteeners. Richin's has a rating system and I've devleped one similar to it. Where I disagree with my friends is over the concept of technical challenge/exposure verses overall effort. I've tried to paste my Excel worksheet in below but it doesn't copy to well in the 'reply' box. I'll galdly e-mail it to anyone who's interested. Although the headings and columns of my worksheet are jumbled, you can see how I rank the California Fourteeners by degree of overall challenge and effort. So for instance Williamson has one of the longest distances from trailhead to summit, so I rate it harder then Thunderbolt despite T-bolt having a more technically challenging summit block. I also agree with the other posts that those peaks accessed from a common trailhead should be attempted together in a single, multi-day outing.

Ease, Difficulty Rank Peak Name Route Name Trail Head Name Suggested Trip Duration (days) Calculated Hiking & Climbing Time (hours) Total One-way Distance (miles) Trailhead Elevation (feet) Summit Elevation (feet) Vertical Gain, Net (feet) Approach Hike Difficulty (1 to 5) Technical Climbing Rating (1 to 5) Richins Effort Rating
1 White Mountain Peak Barcroft Research Center Jeep Trail Barcroft Gate 1 6.15 7.5 11,600 14,246 2,646 1 1 9.5
2 Langley Cottonwood Lakes Trail, New Army Pass Cottonwood Lakes Trail Head 1 14.28 15 9,494 14,027 4,533 2 1 9.6
3 Whitney Main Mt. Whitney Trail Whitney Portal 1 14.47 11 8,360 14,497 6,137 2 1 10.2
4 Muir Main Mt. Whitney Trail Whitney Portal 1 14.66 9 8,360 14,015 5,655 2 3 10.7
5 Shasta Avalanche Gulch Bunny Flat 1 14.72 7 6,980 14,162 7,182 3 1 9.8
6 Russell North Fork of Lone Pine Creek, SE chute, right side Whitney Portal 2 16.73 8 8,360 14,086 5,726 3 3 9.3
7 Split Red Lake Trail, North Ridge, Prater-Split Saddle Red Lake TH 2 18.17 9 6,888 14,058 7,170 3 2 11.2
8 Thunderbolt Bishop Pass Trail, Thunderbolt Pass, Chute No. 1 South Lake 2 22.52 10 9,820 14,003 4,183 4 5 9.9
9 Tyndall Sheppard's Pass, North Rib Symmes Creek (Sheppard's Pass) TH 2 22.62 12 6,396 14,015 7,619 3 3 14
10 Polemonium Bishop Pass Trail, Thunderbolt Pass, U-notch West South Lake 2 26.71 13 9,820 14,200 4,380 4 5 NR
11 North Palisade Bishop Pass Trail, Thunderbolt Pass, U-notch West South Lake 2 26.76 13 9,820 14,242 4,422 4 5 10.7
12 Starlight Bishop Pass Trail, Thunderbolt Pass, U-notch West South Lake 2 27.38 13.5 9,820 14,200 4,380 4 5 NR
13 Middle Palisade East Face Big Pine Creek, Glacier Lodge 3 30.63 12 7,806 14,040 6,234 5 4 9.8
14 Sill Palisade Glacier, Glacier Notch, North Couloir Big Pine Creek, Glacier Lodge 3 33.69 14 7,806 14,162 6,356 5 4 10.5
15 Williamson Sheppard's Pass, West Face, Class 3 chute Symmes Creek (Sheppard's Pass) TH 3 34.31 14 6,396 14,375 7,979 5 3 14.9

Caveats & Assumptions:
1. Rankings are based on the easiest overall route to the summit.
2. The ranking above is based on total effort and takes into account factors of distance, elevation gain, terrain and technical difficulty.
3. The suggested days is based on being capable to hike/climb 15 hours in a single day with a day pack weighing 25 lbs. or less.
4. Shasta is assumed to be climbed with snow conditions, ice-axe/crampons or A-T skis.
5. Distances from R.J. Secor "High Sierra" and scaled from maps.
6. Travel speed is based on minimal day-pack weight. Multi-day trips requiring heavier packs with more food & over-night gear will likely result in longer total hiking/climbing durations.
7. Durations are based on expected travel rates for an average healthy mountaineer, not "Sierra Challenge" class super athletes whom travel much faster with less gear, and take more risks with exposure.
8. Calculated durations and travel speeds are based on assumption of dry weather and adequate visiblity.
9. Rankings are based on average year's snowfall & accumulation. Some snow & ice travel is to be expected
10. Ranking is based on assumption that each summit being reached in a separate trip. However, for efficiency, it is recommended that peaks in close proximity, sharing same approaches, should be climbed
together on a single trip. These peak groups are as follows:
A. Whitney & Muir (1 or 2 days)
B. Tyndall & Williamson (3 to 4 days)
C. Polemonium, North Palisade, Starlight & Thunderbolt (4 to 5 days)

VikingMan wrote:
Thanks for all the input RickF, any chance you can email me your list? Thanks

darinchadwick wrote:I've done all but Starlight. The order doesn't really matter as long as you save the North Palisades group: Sill, Polemonium, North Pal, Starlight, Thunderbolt, for the last. They are just a little more nasty than the rest.

VikingMan wrote:

darinchadwick wrote:I've done all but Starlight. The order doesn't really matter as long as you save the North Palisades group: Sill, Polemonium, North Pal, Starlight, Thunderbolt, for the last. They are just a little more nasty than the rest.

You think Sill would be in that group too? I've been hearing both sides of the fence... at the beginning of the thread, and after researching it myself, it seems like most would put Sill in the easier block of the 14ers, but recently I've gotten a few peeps saying the opposite... what is your reasoning?

Palisades79 wrote:The fifth class routes in the Palisades are among the most enjoyable in the High Sierra and well worth the effort & expense for that level of mountaineering . I hope that you have a chance to do some .