Very sad to see a copyright dispute over the title given to a recent article here.

It was in respect of a current front page article, "Ushba, Forbidden Mountain" by alexclimb.

Vladimir Kopylov made this comment on it, (I am not sure if this did lead to a small change in the title of the article):-

I would like to Inform You, that the name "Forbidden Mountains" - is the title of my English version Book. This name is registrated and can not be used, connected with any fotos of Mountains, without my written permission.

I would like to ask you to change this title name and never use it again.

And also not to cut any of my photos, if you use it for your text illustration.

With respect,
Vladimir Kopylov

Subsequently it seems that Vladimir may have removed all his submissions to SP, and is asking to have his images and name removed from SP as well. Very sad, he has posted some great photos. If he reads this I would ask him to think again.

But hasn't Vladimir asked for too much here? Asking that two words he put together as a book title cannot be used in connection with photos of mountains, presumably by anyone else.

Is that just in written form, or is he trying to ban anyone speaking those words when talking about mountain photos? i.e having himself used those words in print as a book title then stops anyone, worldwide, ever using them again when discussing mountains and mountain photos.

I make that latter statement, not because I feel that was ever Vladimir's intention, but to illustrate how trying to grab two words once used as a book title has the potential to lead to quite ridiculous situations.

My own view is that a small, website article, with a title using two words that someone else used for a published book covering a similar subject does no harm whatsoever to the book. The two are so different in the way they have been "published" and , (I have to presume this), in their content.

Unless the SP article was a direct copy of contents of the book! Which from my understanding of the situation it is most definitely not. But from my understanding of Copyright Laws in certain countries, even if it was a reproduction of a small section of published material online, it could be allowed if the copy was for educational purposes: and what does SP do , if not educate? So if that is allowed, surely using two words of/from the title most certainly is allowable as well.

I just wonder what others here think about the copyright issues raised here?

Sad to hear Bryan, but I basically agree with your view.

It's a shame but a quick google or Amazon search will yield numerous results relating to publications and articles with the titles of or related to 'forbidden mountain' or mountains, predating Vladimir's book too, does this hold him in breach of copyright too? No.

I don't think the request to change the title was a reasonable one but it is a shame because yes, Vladimir's photos are incredible and he is obviously an accomplished mountaineer. The very first image on a google search of Ushba is one of his. Being a simple case of right or wrong though my sympathy would go to Alex for being stuck in this situation through no malice, ill intent or even wrong doing. I think Dave K said what needed to be said and given the use of just two words of the english language in a manner that would never be confused with Valdimir's book I highly doubt there's any legal weight to the demand to alter the name. Perhaps there is more at play here behind the scenes given that they are in the same local and may cover much of the same ground as guides, who knows. Alex can take solace in still getting many good votes for his article. Who wouldn't love Ushba? and they can both take solace in reaching heights and seeing sights that many of us can only dream of.

The situation is not going away, and I think an Elf needs to intercede in some fashion. I have contacted Vladimir, but he seems to think I am a staff member and can address his concerns, which is not the case.

Good day SummitPost stuff.

I still want to demonstrate my Protest to this artical about Mt. Ushba - using my photo and name of my book on the title.

The point is, that Mt. Ushba is the subject of my book.
Also the text of the artical seems to me, looking from Russia inside, rather speculative - bla-bla, and too much pothetic.
On the other side, it's obviously conected with comercial sense, that I do not want my name and my photos to be involved.

I defenetly ask You to remove the name of my book from the Title of the artivcal!
Also I defenetly ask You to remove my photo from the title of the artical, when opend main SP web page.

I would be obliged, if you will kindly let me know - how I can remove some of my photos from SP, specially Mt. Ushba ones.
If this is impossible, I would like to ask you to remove all my photos and my name from SP list and pages.

With respect,
Vladimir Kopylov

My response--

Vladimir, if you really want to delete your pictures, you can go to Editor Options on any page of yours and use the delete feature. You can also ask the Elves to delete your account; if you the Ushba picture removed from the article, you have to ask the Elves because Alex can't do that.

I hope you won't delete your pictures, but I wanted to answer your question.

Response to that--

Good day, Bob.

Now SP has no rights to show and to demonstrate any of my Ushba Photos, becouse all of them were deleted, specially 144776.jpg, that has been used on the front page of
http://www.summitpost.org - as a title of artical Ushba. Forbidden mountain.

I would be Greatly Apreciate You, if you will kindly remove this foto, that SP any more has no right to use from this place!!! Imideately!!!

With respect,
Vladimir Kopylov

I've been exchanging emails with both of these guys. From what I can gather, these Russian guides don't get along so much. May not be that much different from some other guides that share mountains around the world, but who knows.

Aside from thinking the name is somehow his copyright, he objected to the use of his photo on the front page to promote the article. That photo was chosen by the elf that submitted the article to the front page, not by the other guide. I ended having to resubmit all the articles again (no delete function in the elf toolbox for this) to accommodate him. So it's gone now. Somehow I don't think this is going to bring him the satisfaction he's after.

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here and no offence is meant to anyone. I thought of bringing this up before, but never bothered.

Vladimir's photos are incredible and he is obviously an accomplished mountaineer.

I agree, but unfortunately, every single one of them has a commerical link posted on it.

Although I like them very much and they are great photos, at one time it was flooding the Elbrus page with commerical links so I had to detach many of them (the elves originally trasfered me the page because the previous owner was using it primarily for commercial advertising). Some photos with a links are OK, but IMHO submitting hundreds of them to the same mountain shouldn't all contain commerical links. It would be better if the commerical links were used more sparingly.

Bryan Benn wrote:it seems that Vladimir may have removed all his submissions to SP, and is asking to have his images and name removed from SP as well. Very sad, he has posted some great photos. If he reads this I would ask him to think again.

Vladimir, stay if you can, it would be sad to see you leave SP.

Scott wrote:I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here and no offence is meant to anyone. I thought of bringing this up before, but never bothered.

Some photos with a links are OK, but IMHO submitting hundreds of them to the same mountain shouldn't all contain commerical links. It would be better if the commerical links were used more sparingly.

I'm glad you brought it up. I have mentioned this subject at least once myself.

There are a lot of members whose photos and profile pages have links to commercial sites where they sell their photographs. Some members drool over these pictures and vote them up, unaware or unconcerned that the photographers use this site for free advertising.

I don't understand why it's not okay to make commercial posts in the forums or as pages but it is okay to use them on photos and profile pages. Too hard to keep up with?

I don't understand why it's not okay to make commercial posts in the forums or as pages but it is okay to use them on photos and profile pages. Too hard to keep up with?

The owners of this site have said that a little is OK within reason (if applicable/on topic-for example everyone's profile actually does ask for a link to your own website), but several hundred photos added to the same page seems a bit overkill to me.

Bob Burd wrote:I've been exchanging emails with both of these guys. From what I can gather, these Russian guides don't get along so much. May not be that much different from some other guides that share mountains around the world, but who knows.

Aside from thinking the name is somehow his copyright, he objected to the use of his photo on the front page to promote the article. That photo was chosen by the elf that submitted the article to the front page, not by the other guide. I ended having to resubmit all the articles again (no delete function in the elf toolbox for this) to accommodate him. So it's gone now. Somehow I don't think this is going to bring him the satisfaction he's after.

I didn't realise they were both Russians guides, and that maybe don't get along too well.

I also sent an email to Vladimir: partly motivated to do that by the quality of some of his images. I was very careful how I worded it: partly to say I had started this thread and didn't want to do it behind his back, which is not how I like to live my life.

I personally am not bothered by images that have some commercial link being on SP. I just enjoy the quality of the images and locations that have been visited and photographed by those in the SP family.

Scott wrote:but several hundred photos added to the same page seems a bit overkill to me.

I think you did the right thing, Scott. It is unfortunate that it is a pain in the ass to detach so many.


To correct a misconception: I believe Vlad only deleted his photos related to Ushba. He still has plenty of other photos that can be seen on his profile page.

Bryan Benn wrote:Very sad to see a copyright dispute over the title given to a recent article here.

It was in respect of a current front page article, "Ushba, Forbidden Mountain" by alexclimb.

Vladimir Kopylov made this comment on it, (I am not sure if this did lead to a small change in the title of the article):-

I would like to Inform You, that the name "Forbidden Mountains" - is the title of my English version Book. This name is registrated and can not be used, connected with any fotos of Mountains, without my written permission.

I would like to ask you to change this title name and never use it again.

And also not to cut any of my photos, if you use it for your text illustration.

With respect,
Vladimir Kopylov

Subsequently it seems that Vladimir may have removed all his submissions to SP, and is asking to have his images and name removed from SP as well. Very sad, he has posted some great photos. If he reads this I would ask him to think again.

But hasn't Vladimir asked for too much here? Asking that two words he put together as a book title cannot be used in connection with photos of mountains, presumably by anyone else.

Is that just in written form, or is he trying to ban anyone speaking those words when talking about mountain photos? i.e having himself used those words in print as a book title then stops anyone, worldwide, ever using them again when discussing mountains and mountain photos.

I make that latter statement, not because I feel that was ever Vladimir's intention, but to illustrate how trying to grab two words once used as a book title has the potential to lead to quite ridiculous situations.

My own view is that a small, website article, with a title using two words that someone else used for a published book covering a similar subject does no harm whatsoever to the book. The two are so different in the way they have been "published" and , (I have to presume this), in their content.

Unless the SP article was a direct copy of contents of the book! Which from my understanding of the situation it is most definitely not. But from my understanding of Copyright Laws in certain countries, even if it was a reproduction of a small section of published material online, it could be allowed if the copy was for educational purposes: and what does SP do , if not educate? So if that is allowed, surely using two words of/from the title most certainly is allowable as well.

I just wonder what others here think about the copyright issues raised here?

This is pure bullshit intimidation. You can't copyright a title.

Per the U.S. copyright law (I believe this web site is hosted in the U.S.):

"(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works."

Note that "literary works" is listed but "titles of literary works" is not. Using two words from a copyrighted work hardly constitutes a derrivative work. The title of the article should be reinstated as it was.

Buz Groshong wrote:You can't copyright a title.

Actually, I believe you can under certain circumstances. You can search them on the US Copyright search engine:

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... PAGE=First

Using this it appears that The Forbidden mountain has been copyrighted in 1982.

Brad Marshall wrote:

Buz Groshong wrote:You can't copyright a title.

Actually, I believe you can under certain circumstances. You can search them on the US Copyright search engine:

http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... PAGE=First

Using this it appears that The Forbidden mountain has been copyrighted in 1982.

You are misreading the web site. It lists titles of copyrighted works, not copyrighted titles. It says that the copyrights for a work (200 pages) with the title "The Forbidden Mountain" was registered in 1982; that does not mean that the title "The Forbidden Mountain" has copyright protection.