d-SLR cameras

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Misha

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Misha » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:27 am

Diego, here is the <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091504km7d.asp">announcement</a> and <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0410/04100101kminolta7dgallery.asp">some samples</a>. Looks like a really good camera, especially if you already have Minolta glass.
It is already available in the US. I am sure that it is only a matter of days/weeks before you see it in Madrid's stores.

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BobK

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by BobK » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:29 am

Can anyone offer advice as to how far digitals have come in overcoming the problems with exposure latitude in slide film. I take most of my climbing and summit photos during the day. The best climbing days are in bright, contrasty sunshine. This often results in my being unable to properly expose both the climber AND the snowy, white background.

All things considered, I believe being able to overcome this limitation inherent in slide film would be enough to convince me to switch over to digital completely.

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Misha

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Misha » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:48 am

Bob, are you setting your aperture/shutter speed manually? If yes, what do you point to when you take the reading off your light meter? Also, are you bracketing with different aperture/shutter speed settings.

One more thing to consider... if the climber is in let's say lower half of the photo, and snow/mountain in the background is in the upper half, you can try to use Graduated Neutral Density filter.

<i>All things considered, I believe being able to overcome this limitation inherent in slide film would be enough to convince me to switch over to digital completely.</i>

How about instant reviewing of your work vs. waiting for days/weeks before you can see if the pic turned out OK or got ruined? It also costs money to develop and later scan your film, with digital it is 'free' :)

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Diego Sahagún

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Diego Sahagún » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:56 am

Misha, I had not seen the samples yet, thanks. I'll have to save for buying it...

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BobK

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by BobK » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:35 am

MIsha, I am setting everything manually and choosing the part of the photo I want to expose for, I also bracket quite a bit when I'm unsure and really want something to come out..

Thing is, I would like to have more exposure latitude on bright, contrasty days so more details remains in both highlights and shadows. A graduated nutral density filter is the solution, but because you have to position it manually, it is a hassle and unsuited for climbing. And how about a climber in the middle of the photograph with snow on four sides?

Can you move the G-ND filter up and down or from side to side (maybe even diagonally for those climbing shots capturing someone hanging out from the rock) with a digital? How about 1, 2 and 3-stop filters? I use these with film.

I climb with a GR1s and am very happy to continue with it. I have a coolpic digital, but rarely carry it. When in camp or on photo hikes, I carry much more glass, try to shoot under more artistic lighting conditions, and take my time and try a number of filters. I always use a tripod. Instantly viewing results is interesting, but I cannot really tell how good the exposure is until I get back to my computer and begin playing with it in Photoshop.

I will go digital for some of the reasons you mentioned, solving my film latitude problem would cause me to jump immediately.

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Misha

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Misha » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:42 am

<i>you have to position it manually, it is a hassle and unsuited for climbing. </i>
True, it is not the most convenient thing for climbing.

<i>And how about a climber in the middle of the photograph with snow on four sides?</i>

It won't help in a situation like that. Have you already tried polarizing filters? How do they affect your photos?

<i>Can you move the G-ND filter up and down or from side to side (maybe even diagonally for those climbing shots capturing someone hanging out from the rock) with a digital?</i>

I am by no means a GND expert (still learning it myself), but I think that you should be able to do something like that with a right filter holder. I will be buying Cokin P holder for a Singh-Ray GND filter in a week or so. I can tell you how it works at that time.

<i>How about 1, 2 and 3-stop filters?</i>
You mean if they exist/work with digital? They certainly do work if you're referring to 1-3 f/stop GND filters.

<i>I cannot really tell how good the exposure is until I get back to my computer and begin playing with it in Photoshop.</i>
You'd be amazed when you see some of these new dSLR LCDs. Very nice and crisp! My goal is to get 90% of the image quality out of the camera, and only do about 10% post-processing. I think that it is very doable with my new purchase but it is yet to be confirmed.

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BobK

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by BobK » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:09 am

Thanks Misha, you've got me interested. I might start looking at higher end models this weekend; may not be all that easy to do in Shanghai.

My big question remains: if slide film has a latitude of around 5 f/stops, and print film may stretch that up to 7 f/stops, how do the better digitals camera perform on this metric? Especially in the mountain environment.

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brenta

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by brenta » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:30 am

One piece of good news for those concerned with exposure latitude may be the D-lighting function of the latest Coolpix prosumer cameras (8400 and 8800). This option is touted as a digital fill flash. It can be used in playback mode to fix the underexposed area of a picture without changing the rest. I haven't seen it at work, but it may be interesting. I'm not aware of this option being offered on digital SLRs yet.

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Nelson

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Nelson » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:53 am

<i> am by no means a GND expert (still learning it myself), but I think that you should be able to do something like that with a right filter holder. I will be buying Cokin P holder for a Singh-Ray GND filter in a week or so. I can tell you how it works at that time. </i>

Misha, congrats on getting your new toy! Lots of us at SP will be looking forward to your work.

Regarding the GND setup you mention above, I do have one exactly like that, with a 2-stop soft step filter, which I purchased on their advice as the most forgiving for a new user, as well as one of most useful ranges. You can position the filter up or down or diagonal as Bob asks. It does take some practice. I experimented and put small tick marks with an indelible marker on the edge of the filter to indicate the 1/2, 1/3, and 1/4 positions. You don't necessarily see where it is when looking in the viewfinder.

I'm condisering getting a digital camera but not the SLR route. Considering a Canon S70 or G6. They get good reviews and I have a Canon film camera (Rebel). The G6 has a built in ND filter but I don't know yet if its graduated or adjustable.

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Misha

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Misha » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:40 am

Bob, few threads/forums for you to review for more info about exposure latitude with Canon dSLRs:

<a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=6060374">1</a>
<a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4796441">2</a>
<a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=10119803">3</a>

Hope that it helps! I would be curious how this compares to the new Fuji S3 Pro. There are rumors flying around that its Dynamic Range is superior to any other dSLR below a $4K price tag.

<i>Misha, congrats on getting your new toy! Lots of us at SP will be looking forward to your work.</i>
Thanks a lot, Nelson! I am getting really anxious, it will arrive tomorrow :)
I will resend you my email tonight, somehow my elaborate message from earlier today got lost in cyberspace and did not even get recorded in my Sent Items :(

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BobK

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by BobK » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:03 am

Misha, Great links! Thanks a lot. Looking forward to hearing how you like your new toy.

Do digitals have built-in GND filters. I mean purely electronic, nothing sticking onto the lens? How about other types of filters? If this could be done internally, especially in a point and shoot, it would be a great candidate for a camera to carry while climbing.

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Nelson

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Nelson » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:48 pm

<i>my elaborate message from earlier today got lost in cyberspace ...</i>
I hate it when that happens!

Those were good links Misha. In any case it looks like digital has much higher latitude than slide film. I think I remember hearing that the human eye has about 13 stops latitude.

Bob, the Canon G6 that I am thinking of getting has a built in Neutral Density filter. But nowhere does it say "Graduated" and I've not found any real info about it yet. The dpreview site just says:
</i>ND Filter • Can be switched into image path via rec menu
• Approx 1/8 decrease in brightness (3 stops) </i>

Even the Canon site just says "built in" and I have not found any more details. The obvious questions are: is it graduated and adjustable, both in strength and position?

For various reasons (among them the 4-figure price tag!) I have decided not to go with a digital SLR.

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brenta

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by brenta » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:12 pm

Nelson,

My conclusion upon reading what I could find on the web was that the ND filter of the G6 was neither adjustable nor graduated. The comments at this <a href="http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/G6/G6A10.HTM">page</a> seem to support that view. Taken literally, that comment says that it's an optical filter, not an electronic one. Regardless of all this, the G6 seems a very attractive camera in its category and it's one of my finalists. (I intend to buy a decent digital camera in the not-so-distant future.) If I were to buy today, I'd probably go for the Nikon 8400, but I still need some research. I haven't ruled out a dSLR yet, but bulk and price weigh against that choice.

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Nelson

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Nelson » Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:41 am

Thanks Brenta. I think that answers it. Somehow I was thinking / hoping that there might be some clever software that would effectively produce an adjustable GND, but I guess that's not the case.

I have that review bookmarked but didn't get that into it far yet. Along with dpreview.com and imaging-resource there is also <a href="">Steve's Digicam site</a>. You can spend a week just reading up on one camera!

Anyway, that one is still on my short list.

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Nelson

 
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Re: d-SLR cameras

by Nelson » Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:14 pm

Since the G6 ND filter isn't what I hoped, and since its lens only goes down to 35 mm at the wide end, I'm now leaning towards the Canon S70. It is a hundred bucks cheaper and has a 28mm lens. Plus it is smaller, which is one of the reasons I am not going with an d-SLR in the first place: I want something compact that I'd be more likely to take on a quick trip, be it mountain, family, or business.

Comments welcome.

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