Hey! I saw that red streak this past summer while passing through the Royce Lakes area. I remember telling my girlfriend, "that's funny, I don't remember that area of rock up there being quite that red! Must be some kind of lichen bloom after the daily rain lately." I never would have suspected something like a firefighting chemical drop!

Well... those lakes are so beautifully clear largely due to lack of nutrients, so it's a shame to see tons of nutrients introduced just upstream.

But in any case -- if they had to ditch that load, maybe it's good that they did so where it most likely only coated areas regularly visited or sat upon by birds, perhaps a pika, a number of lizards and spiders, maybe a marmot or two (not counting climbers). Seems a lot better than dumping it over (for example) the very nearby meadows of French Creek or in fact any lower altitude and/or more level and/or more vegetated area.

The Chief wrote:Get over it folks...it's done! There aint a frkn thing you can do about it. Live with it or stay away! It isn't the only hill in the Sierra...G-damn!:roll:

This thing is a hell of a bigger Eye Sore than the red streak and I don't hear anyone bitching about it!

I wonder what's in that fluorescent blue pond that you can see once you're up the Pine Creek trail a bit? It looks kind of scary.

I noticed the red stain on Feather last October. But I already knew what it was.

Quick question. How much does it drive you nuts when non-climbers have uninformed comments and criticisims of climbers' judgement in a crisis (supposed or otherwise) situation on a route?

Totally drives me crazy. Nuff said.

Hey Chief , Nice try with the tungsten mine and all, but it is apples and oranges. The question has been raised as to whether it is appropriate to dump planeloads of fire retardant chemicals in backcountry, wilderness and watershed areas when no people or structures are threatened.

Exhibit A for the opposition:







These pics were taken two days ago at one of several drop zones in the Kern Canyon. The drop were made early last summer - so much for the "it goes away in a few weeks story."

It is good to know though that those rocks are now fireproof..

Kris... you and I both know that there are those that would go completely bonkers if the USFS would not initiate drops in wilderness areas in order to promote extinguishment of a wildfire to save their precious land. Both sides have their reasons.

I personally do not approve of this practice. Fires are a natural process and I say let them burn if they are not any threat to any stuctures etc.

Regardless of reasons or culpability, it is done. Harping about it after the fact will not rid the stains.

The Chief wrote:Kris... you and I both know that there are those that would go completely bonkers if the USFS would not initiate drops in wilderness areas in order to promote extinguishment of a wildfire to save their precious land. Both sides have their reasons.

I personally do not approve of this practice. Fires are a natural process and I say let them burn if they are not any threat to any stuctures etc.

Regardless of reasons or culpability, it is done. Harping about it after the fact will not rid the stains.

Chief - No doubt the stains, and what they contain are there. But not to "squabble?" How about preventing future such events? That would be the point of harping on, eh? They missed ruining my favorite boulders and several of my best and favorite climbs by a small margin while accomplishing nothing but spending their budgets.

ksolem wrote:These pics were taken two days ago at one of several drop zones in the Kern Canyon. The drop were made early last summer - so much for the "it goes away in a few weeks story."
It is good to know though that those rocks are now fireproof..

Just to keep some perspective: the soluble or bio-degradable crud -- the phosphates, ammonium compounds, etc. -- get washed away and eventually become innocuous soil components. The iron oxide dye - which is not chemically harmful, but quite visual -- can stay around for a long, long time.

I've left similarly-colored stains on rocks, but from my own blood.

ksolem wrote:

The Chief wrote:Kris... you and I both know that there are those that would go completely bonkers if the USFS would not initiate drops in wilderness areas in order to promote extinguishment of a wildfire to save their precious land. Both sides have their reasons.

I personally do not approve of this practice. Fires are a natural process and I say let them burn if they are not any threat to any stuctures etc.

Regardless of reasons or culpability, it is done. Harping about it after the fact will not rid the stains.

Chief - No doubt the stains, and what they contain are there. But not to "squabble?" How about preventing future such events? That would be the point of harping on, eh? They missed ruining my favorite boulders and several of my best and favorite climbs by a small margin while accomplishing nothing but spending their budgets.

Kris... the ownership action of "my favorite" is why you may be on the particular side of this discussion and seems to be the major concern here on this issue. Maybe WE all need to stop and realize that none of these precious areas are "ours" and had that emotional value not been induced, this type of proceedure would not be taken in case of any wildland fire.

Seems that everyone thinks that it is "their" land/rocks/forest etc.

May I add, that they "missed" your favorite area.

The Chief wrote: Kris... the ownership action of "my favorite" is why you may be on the particular side of this discussion and seems to be the major concern here on this issue. Maybe WE all need to stop and realize that none of these precious areas are "ours" and had that emotional value not been induced, this type of proceedure would not be taken in case of any wildland fire.

Seems that everyone thinks that it is "their" land/rocks/forest etc.

Rick… So we are on the same page regarding the use of chemical fire retardants and dyes in wilderness areas? That’s my main point.

The use of the possessive “my” refers to “favorite.” Among many boulders and climbs these are some of my favorites. I feel no sense of ownership of them, although I do feel a certain sense of belonging when I am there, and so a certain sense of custody – caretaking if you will – and this feeling of custody is a shared one with the small group of others who climb here regularly. Our Tribe, as DMT would say.

To the topic of the thread, am I the only one here who thinks it is obvious the Feather Peak paint job had to be a “recreational” drop? It is just too perfect. Skillful bombing, but a poor choice of target…

To the topic of the thread, am I the only one here who thinks it is obvious the Feather Peak paint job had to be a “recreational” drop? It is just too perfect. Skillful bombing, but a poor choice of target…

A lot of people here suspect the drop was a bit of mischief from folks who had a lapse in judgement. I also believe that if the red were natural, many people would find it "pretty".

If you're peak bagging, scrambling some, and all about covering terrain I can see where a little red paint here and there would not seem like a big deal. Unfortunately I am among those whom Messner made such good fun of for clinging to the Eetsy Beesty holds on the Teeny little rocks. The red paint ruins the feel and texture of the rock, aside from the fact that I don't want to grind that crap into my skin regardless of the USFS's claims that it is harmless.

OK. This one is beat to death. Over and out.

Cy,

You started all this. What say you? Or do you just like to throw out a topic and then follow the verbal jousting?

Mountain Impulse wrote:Cy,

You started all this. What say you? Or do you just like to throw out a topic and then follow the verbal jousting?

Perhaps Cy got in his .02 when he titled the thread " ...peak damaged... " ?

...You either make the flights and incur the risk.... or you let it burn...

I'm not sure it is that simple. The Kern Canyon drops including the one pictured above appear to have had zero effect on the actual fire, which went pretty much where it wanted to, retardant or no. Perhaps the way to find out why the forest service insists on dropping planeloads of phoschek in the wilderness would be to follow the $ .

Mountain Impulse wrote:Cy,

You started all this. What say you? Or do you just like to throw out a topic and then follow the verbal jousting?

I am enjoying this thread but did not see the stain for myself. I dont think our comments will reach the people that can do something about it. Lets hope that it does. What is the Sierra Club saying about this?