Out of curiousity (and during a long con call) I looked it up - it probably wasn't Hemingway who made the famous quote about there only being three sports. I wish it were he because I like his writing and I like the quote, but apparently it's a common misquote:

http://www.timelesshemingway.com/content/quotationsfaq#threesports

JHH60 wrote:Out of curiousity (and during a long con call) I looked it up - it probably wasn't Hemingway who made the famous quote about there only being three sports. I wish it were he because I like his writing and I like the quote, but apparently it's a common misquote:

http://www.timelesshemingway.com/content/quotationsfaq#threesports

Good find. I'm a little surprised as I am a big fan of Hemingway's writing style but thinking about it I don't recall ever reading that quotation in any of his books.

At cocktail parties and such I usually have akward convesations with other men. "So, do you like sports?". Me: "Yes, I particualarly enjoying competing in ultra marathons, ice climbing, rock climbing, ski mountaineering and alpine climbing." Them: "I enjoy sitting on the couch watching grown men play children's game that requires no physical extertion on my part other than to go to the fridge to grab another beer."

Totally agree that climbing is not a sport, but as others have said, more of a passion, or spiritual endeavor, albiet a very physical and mental one.

I think there is something deep in our reptilian brain-stems that provides humans with spiritual happiness through outdoor activities, the kinds that require physical exertion over a long duration, cunning, intelligence and devotion to one's self and partners. After all, that's the way we lived for millenia before we discovered how to build houses, cars and i-pods. I've never ranched a day in my life, but I can see how passionate people who work the land as ranchers or farmers are about their livelihood. Hunters, too. My late-step-father was an avid fly-fisherman, who went to Montana every year. He would light up like a little kid when thinking or talking about his passion.

I like baseball, hockey, football, basketball... but can't play them well at all (okay, maybe I was a half-way decent-fielding first baseman, but hitting, forget it). But those sports don't provide me a high that a successful climb does. They provide a distraction and happiness when my team wins, but that high lasts 15 minutes.

I'm not necessarily referring to endorphin rushes. It's deeper than that. Climbing, hiking or any long-distance, all-day endurance experience reaches me (and I assume others) on about as deep a level as possible. Everything else is done just to fill the time between these ventures.

FWIW, here is a link to the registered number of climbers attempting Denali from 1903 to present. http://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/l ... eID=308167

The number of mountaineers attempting Denali has increased pretty much every year until about 1994. From 1994 to present the number of climbers has remained static, around 1,200-1,300 every year. Last time I was there they were discussing capping the number at 1,300 or 1,500. I don't remember.

Good to get me up to speed guys on the current scene. Being from Ontario, Canada, I guess there just aren't many mountaineers around here. A lot of rock climbers though. Rock climbing doesn't really interest me though, I'm more of a snow guy.

The negativity about America in the Canadian media is out of control also. This could be affecting how I 'think' the numbers have dwindled. I watch this channel called CNBC all the time. What's the deal with this channel, who does it cater to in America? It's so negative, yet so different than any of the other channels.

Anyhow, i've potentially rounded up some new Canadians and a couple of Americans, and i'll keep you posted of our first trip this winter, i'll put up the report.

That's interesting Excitable, to see those attendance numbers. When you say capping, I don't know how they are going to do that. From what I understand they can't stop anyone from getting a permit, isn't that true?

peninsula wrote:

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:

borutbk wrote:First of all Mountaineering is not a sport...

I beg your pardon:

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountain climbing.”

-Ernest Hemingway

I guess it was not enough for Hemingway to keep on living.

Yes his ego was just toooo big.

Bergshrund wrote: When you say capping, I don't know how they are going to do that. From what I understand they can't stop anyone from getting a permit, isn't that true?

No, that is not true. Every climber attempting Denali of Foraker must have a permit and personally meet with a ranger for an hour lecture. You also recieve your clean mountain can and biodegradeable liners. It is very easy to enforce: no air taxi service in Talkeetna will fly climbers without the appropriate permits. Also, at KIA there is a ranger station where you will have to have your permit validated. I suppose you could do a stealth walk-in permit less and hope you don't run into a ranger.

This is an interesting thread.

I do not understand why the OP is looking towards Denali to define American Mountaineering. Would presence of young guys on these expeditions make it all better? Let’s be honest regular route on Denali is not that challenging to a mountaineer who gets out to the mountains often, nor is it an interesting goal for most. Although if you do look at Denali, not all is lost there. This year I had a chance to chat with Colin Hale (under 30) there- an American alpinist who puts up new routes, and does impressive ascents around the world all the time, even when he doesn’t plan on it at times : ) He was going for speed record on Cassin Ridge. Here are some of the things that he climbed there in AK during his trip:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/06/ ... g-and.html
He does and did cool climbs for a while, so check archives for more cool stuff. I love his blog.
Although he got there a bit too late to get favorable conditions couple of other guys from Europe got the Cassin record and I got to chat with them for a bit too, while taking their food (they did the route in 14hours:40mins I think, from base to top of the route). Colin and his partner from previous attempt of theirs hold the speed record for base to summit, on Cassin.
While there m partner and I wanted to climb full west rib but conditions of the glacier on the approach to that route too complicated for it to be worthy. So we did the regular route and went to climb things elsewhere. Met other young Americans there with cool goals but not favorable conditions. Also I met another guy from CA aspiring to climb the west rib. Conditions sucked for them on an attempt at Upper Rib but he made the most out of his trip too. Summiting the west buttress in 4 days.
http://pullharder.org/2011/06/23/an-ice ... -buttress/
I was fortunate to climb with him here in our home range (http://pullharder.org/2011/09/02/weeken ... bon-arete/) , and as a much more experienced climber (I been hiking/climbing/mountaineering since January 2010, but not as much climbing till later part of 2010) than me, he taught me quite a lot about climbing, and helped me push myself. And we will climb again some day.
Absence of trip reports does not mean people don’t get out and climb things. I know several people who did not write any trip reports about their trips to South America, or elsewhere. Does it really matter? If you want good climbing news check out Alpinist.
Here is one of recent big climbs. Americans still climb cool things, in good style. http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web11f/news ... -hour-push

Also new routes of course are not climbed as often anymore. 50 years ago a lot of striking peaks/lines were unclimbed and now to get a significant peak with a striking line you need to do a load of research, traveling, drop a lot of $, and most likely it wont be repeated since it is somewhere real far and hard to get to.

Vitaliy M. wrote:regular route on Denali is not that challenging to a mountaineer who gets out to the mountains often, nor is it an interesting goal for most.

Ha, ha. I described the West Buttrash as being mostly pretty dull on an interwebs chat board. Boy, did people get upset.

I would venture to say that in general, Mountaineering is declining in number, but rock climbing and bouldering are becoming more popular.

The only reason I rock climb is because its the only thing I can do year round here on the East Coast without flying anywhere legit. The number of rock climbers around me are huge, and most of them have a less than desirable attitude to make me want to hang around. I have climbed a bit in Arizona and South Dakota and find the climbers attitude very different. More positive, friendly, and open.

It kind of turns me off to rock climbers in general. There are really cool great guys who climb, but for the most part, where I live in PA, not so much...

ExcitableBoy wrote:Ha, ha. I described the West Buttrash as being mostly pretty dull on an interwebs chat board. Boy, did people get upset.

I thought from 16 to 17K was kind of cool if you do not use fixed ropes(it had sections of up to 50 degree neve and some exposed 3rd class rock scramble some places), 17K/some other spots have good views, and summit ridge was cool. But in term of a personal challenge, something that you are glad you survived or anything similar- it was nothing worthy. I am happy that at least I got my feet wet, and went to check out a different range. To be honest when the plane dropped us on the glacier it was overwhelming to see all the towering ice filled, ugly-glacier surrounded monster peaks- harder routes on Foraker/Hunter are really impressive. Now need to get strong and come back for better routes the range has to offer. And there is a lot!
Don't get me wrong, Denali is a beautiful mountain etc, but 17K camp on West Buttress does not represent creme of the crop of American mountaineering. Mostly just people who wanted to climb this peak. Which offers a lot of challenges to people who do not climb mountains all the time, or can't afford to.

One thing for sure, it's never been easier to FIND OUT where to go and what to do and what style to do it in. The information around us now for such a specialized "sport" is staggering.

I've never been a fan of Hemingway actually, but that quote is fun. As far as I know he wasn't a climber, but the Vorarlberg region in western Austria is really proud that he spent winters and springs there and learned to ski tour, doing all the local classic tours in the 1920s, staying in huts, etc.

I pity anyone who thinks mountaineering isn't a sport. There is so much involved!
From managing your time to actually be able to climb mountains for months at a time to having the skill to put up new 5.11 routes
on high peaks...in winter and even down to the casual scramble.

There is a huge competitive atmosphere to the sport of mountaineering.
Who can bag the most peaks, who can climb the hardest route, who can ski the most peaks, who can climb the most days in a row, who can climb in the most countries,
...the list is endless.

I consider mountaineering a sport for life and it doesn't end until you have died....and your stats cease.
I just hope I can be competitive enough to climb many many peaks (10,000+) globally and die of old age rather than ending my career short in an accident.

Julius Kugy, maybe the biggest name in the Julian Alps adversed the idea of mountaineering as a sport and as a competitive activity.
For him it was a way of live, a passion, a love.