It looks like the locals around Ararat set up a mafia and only offer package deals for climbing Ararat. Does anybody have experience climbing this mountain independently and legally? I know a permit and guide is required. Anybody know who/where I can obtain this and climb on my own?

Thanks,
Kevin

Years ago, back in 2005, I climbed it, but that was as part of a fully organized package, everything was taken care of. After acclimatizing a bit elsewhere in Turkey, before our climb we spent a few nights at Murat Camping, located on the slopes above Dogubayazit, the closest town near Ararat. The people at the camping can help you if you want to climb the mountain.

The climb itself took three or four days: we had two camps on the way up, and I think we spent another night at the lower camp afterwards, but I'm not completely sure about that anymore - it's been a while. Technically it's real easy, but our acclimatization could have been better and as a result we were very slow on summit day. Nevertheless, almost all of us eventually got to the top.
The first day of the climb starts by driving up the mountain as far as the road goes. Our group gained two more people that day: two independent travelers from Austria joined us. While we had at least spent a week hiking up a few other peaks, they hadn't. As a result, one of them suffered too much from AMS at high camp, but the other made it.

Even though it's easy, going up without a guide won't work: There are people living on the slopes that know the area like the back of their hand, and they control it. It's virtually impossible to sneak by unnoticed.
Traditionally, living off that patch of land is hard, so the additional income that they earn from the tourist business (by supplying guides, porters, cooks, horses and a bit of food) is very welcome. Frankly, as they've been living on the mountain for many generations, you might say it's their land, although I doubt if they own it outright. Legal ownership is a not a concept that traditional cultures care much about - until one day they are surprised to find out that some stranger claims title to their land! Just think about what happened to the Native Americans. Anyway, back to Ararat: if you look at it from this perspective, it's perfectly normal that they want to make some money from it.

I got the very distinct impression that if you show up in Dogubayazit and ask around, you may get lucky and find a good guide who can take care of all the organization for you, but more likely you only find someone that appears knowledgeable but isn't. Instead I would advise to go to Murat Camping and ask there. Knowing what I know now, that's what I would do. But as I've already climbed it, I don't intend to do it again; there are still lots of other nice mountains I'd like to climb, and too little time.

Good luck, Rob


Ararat from downtown Dogubayazit

Hi,

If you want, you can try to obtain permit by yourself. You have to do it by Turkish Embassy in your country. You can ask for help one of travel agencies which organize trekking tours to Ararat. This option will be probably easier for you, because you will have to send them your passport copy and date of your climbing.
Getting permit takes about 1 month (now sometimes is possible to do it faster, but anyway is less risky, if you start to do it earlier).

It's forbidden to climb without guide.
You can find guide by internet. There is a lot of companies which organize trekking tours.
If you have permit, you can also take risk and try to find guide, when you come to Dogubayazit. But I don't think so that you will find good guide in this way, because good guides usually have many groups and it's not so easy to meet them in city center. During season they are almost all the time on Ararat.

When I climbed I chose 'full service' option and this company: http://www.ararattrip.com/
But if you want cheaper option, I'm sure they can organize it for you also.

Wish you luck!

Sounds like a cartel although Kurdish rebels still operate. I know a Swiss guy who was kidnapped off the mountain and held for a year. So that might be your mafia.