Dougb wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hood_climbing_accidents

There is still hope...

"Beginning on New Year's Eve in 1975, two 16-year-olds and an 18-year-old survived in a snow cave 13 days through a snow storm.[15]"

If they have the perfect shelter (snow cave) and food, they could go on for a couple weeks. So I agree with you. Other factors on Hood right now is the huge amounts of snowfall that trigger avy conditions. Also we dont know if they are injured which really shortens the time. They have to stay dry and warm enough. Sometimes it would just come down to thier mental condition.

thoth wrote:Or maybe don't expect to tell people what they can and can't post on public forums. I don't see any blaming here, it is a shame it happened and not a matter of blame but we all make our choices. I reserve tragedy for things other people do to innocents.

Tragedy is getting killed by a drunk driver or in an airplane crash, this is a shame and I'm quite sorry for their families, it isn't a tragedy, go away if you expect to dictate responses on an open OPINION based climbing/hiking forum.

I'm not armchair mountaineering their decisions but Chief is dead on, we choose this life, the tragedy is left to our friends and families.

Glad to see the two of yoos getting along ....LOL

thoth wrote:Or maybe don't expect to tell people what they can and can't post on public forums. I don't see any blaming here, it is a shame it happened and not a matter of blame but we all make our choices. I reserve tragedy for things other people do to innocents.

Tragedy is getting killed by a drunk driver or in an airplane crash, this is a shame and I'm quite sorry for their families, it isn't a tragedy, go away if you expect to dictate responses on an open OPINION based climbing/hiking forum.

I'm not armchair mountaineering their decisions but Chief is dead on, we choose this life, the tragedy is left to our friends and families.

This whole "tragedy" thing is just a question of semantics, I agree with you that climbing is inherently risky, etc, and a climbing death is certainly in a different category than a drunk driving victim. What rubbed me the wrong way was more the attitude of the Chiefs post, now clarified in his latest, that the climbers made bad decisions/had bad attitudes that lead to their accident, which is something that no one really can have any sort of informed opinion on at this point. Now it could turn out that they did do something "unsafe" and got caught, but it just rubbed me the wrong way after a few too many beers. Oh, and I don't expect to dictate anything, but I feel fine about telling people to stfu that I don't agree with, so there it is. Carry on.

billisfree wrote:Here he go again... ANOTHER macho climber with his head in the clouds, bragging he's the wisest, safest, climber around. Always have to tell everyone he's doing everything right and others are stupid.

Chief;

Put your harness on (i.e. seat belt) - when you get in your car next time. That'll put fear in knowing that you are taking risks when you drive. (That YOUR logic, not ours!)

You know Bill, who would you want advice from in Winter Mountaineering safety, a retired engineer or a retired SAR experienced mountaineer? We all get to the armchair that’s why we are typing on this forum. My 75 year old mother lives in Sandy, she will tell you to stay off the mountain period, my brother in law who also lives in Sandy will tell you stay off Hood between October is to May ish.

I have a good buddy (JP) who has climbed Hood many times through all conditions and he will probably tell you evaluate the conditions around you every minute. He will also turn back in a New York second (half a second). He might go in December but I don’t picture him going into a storm. Now think about that statement, you might say it would be perfect weather the day the trio left the climbers shack. I bet you it wasn’t and the forecast alone on this mountain needs to be respected- cuz it’s right almost 100% of the time.

Doesn’t matter how well prepared and experienced you are. The weather on Hood doesn’t give a rat’s anus WHO is on the mountain.

There are probably about 15% of the people on SP who really know what they are talking about (Not me- LOL), so I listen to those folks.

thoth wrote:

Deltaoperator17 wrote:
There are probably about 15% of the people on SP who really know what they are talking about (Not me- LOL), so I listen to those folks.

I think that's probably an overestimate.

What me listening or 15%??

Deltaoperator17 wrote:

billisfree wrote:Here he go again... ANOTHER macho climber with his head in the clouds, bragging he's the wisest, safest, climber around. Always have to tell everyone he's doing everything right and others are stupid.

Chief;

Put your harness on (i.e. seat belt) - when you get in your car next time. That'll put fear in knowing that you are taking risks when you drive. (That YOUR logic, not ours!)

You know Bill, who would you want advice from in Winter Mountaineering safety, a retired engineer or a retired SAR experienced mountaineer? We all get to the armchair that’s why we are typing on this forum. My 75 year old mother lives in Sandy, she will tell you to stay off the mountain period, my brother in law who also lives in Sandy will tell you stay off Hood between October is to May ish.

I have a good buddy (JP) who has climbed Hood many times through all conditions and he will probably tell you evaluate the conditions around you every minute. He will also turn back in a New York second (half a second). He might go in December but I don’t picture him going into a storm. Now think about that statement, you might say it would be perfect weather the day the trio left the climbers shack. I bet you it wasn’t and the forecast alone on this mountain needs to be respected- cuz it’s right almost 100% of the time.

Doesn’t matter how well prepared and experienced you are. The weather on Hood doesn’t give a rat’s anus WHO is on the mountain.

There are probably about 15% of the people on SP who really know what they are talking about (Not me- LOL), so I listen to those folks.

Also, I am praying for the comfort of Luke's family and friends and the safe return of his two climbing companions. I am sure this is a most difficult time.

Have any of you read,Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales? I would like to believe that these experienced climbers knew the risk of a winter climb. Gonzales states (p239) "safety is an illusion and being obsessed with safety is a sickness." That being said, climbers who winter climb must have a real understanding of risk and must have accepted the reality that something epic could happen and if it does--they are ready or as ready as they can be. I am praying that these climbers will indeed be found alive. I am not advocating recklessness nor am I implying these climbers were. Lots of people venture no farther than the safety of their neighborhood only to be car-jacked and injured/killed.

twoshuzz wrote:Again, I see some pretty broad strokes painted here, some of which are based on assumption and not fact. A bit reckless. Human nature I guess.


Rather than repost, I'll link the page with my post from the "News" forum : http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=50408&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

We know very little more today. We have pics from near 10,000. We also have suggested evidence of a possible fall. That's really it. All this talk about bad judgement, inner voices, killer storms during killer months... borders the ridiculous, especially when one considers what we actually know to be fact : VERY LITTLE.

Maybe we can at least hold off until all the facts are in ?


Again, thoughts and prayers...

Agree 110%! Thank you, Twoshuzz!
Ps. if you want to see(you don't, trust me), some whacked-out comments about the climbers, etc.(happens with every climbing incident), from the non-climbing community, read the comments on Oregonlive.com. Sick.

Search for the two remaining climbers to continue when weather permits, opinions expressed on summitpost.org referenced and Jim Whittaker speaks out on the "excitment and fun of testing yourself against the power of nature".

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0912 ... climbers_3

All this talk about tragedy, fault and blame has made this post lose it's point. There is one person dead and two others still up there who might also be death. Let really take a step back from this discussion and console the families and friends of these hikers and pray (or hope) for the safety of the other two. You see one post on a site console them for their grief. They were the unfortunate ones on a mountain many of us have climbed, loved and will reclimb many times over.

What happened to the original thread over on "News"?

Lemme guess, trolls reared their ugly heads again...

Oh, I see, I found it... Of course it went to PnP...

My condolences to the friends and family of Luke T. Gullberg. I hope and pray for the safety of Anthony Vietti, and Katie Nolan, and comfort for their families during their agonizing wait for answers.

DubiouslyDoubtful wrote:I find it a little odd that, with all the comments about the "fun" and "excitement" of the climb, I don't see any mention of the "fun" and "excitement" that the rescuers must be experiencing as they put their lives on the line for the benefit of people just getting their jollies.

Heartfelt condolences to all the friends and families of the climbers--and the rescuers

Yet another moron chimes in...