Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advice.

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jeffn

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by jeffn » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:31 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is that speed is your friend. Get up and get down. The more time you are on the upper part of the mountain, the more chances you have for bad things to happen. My advise, given your situation, would be to forgo the sleep over at Helen Lake and do it as a day climb. Sleep at the parking lot or maybe horse camp on Friday night and get up early and start walking. Helen Lake is a little Woodstock-like this time of year and not in a good way. Carry plenty of water and your warm clothes and little else.
Shasta was the first hike/climb I did above 10,000 ft and I was a novice at the time. I seem to remember waiting for my partners in the parking lot at 2:30 or so on the way down and I was older and probably less fit than you. Enjoy the conga line and be open to turning back if things get shitty. Good luck

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Princess Buttercup

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by Princess Buttercup » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:23 pm

azzy wrote: I truly want to increase my chances of success...


It's all in how you define "success". For your first climb, you may consider being there, taking the time to learn the basics (ie: self-arrest, footwork in crampons), watching the weather, meeting someone willing to share beta or technique experience to mean more than a "summit". Every step you climb over 7K will be a personal best. I agree with Kevin on many, many points, the most important being to realize the best time to turn around for you, and not being forced into a situation where your discomfort ends up paralyzing you. Pushing limits is one thing: most of us who head out regularly do just that. But there is a learning curve, a critical thinking pathway, that is developed over time.

Know what questions to ask when you are ON the mountain: What is the weather doing? What do those clouds mean? What is the snow doing? How long has the sun been on this slope? Are there others around? How do I feel (someone mentioned signs and symptoms of AMS, think dehydration, also)? When I was on Mt. Hood (an unfamiliar mountain in an unfamiliar range for me), I was peppering everyone who came down with questions, and they were most willing to answer.

You will be solo like people on the Main Mt. Whitney Trail are "solo" in the summer, but that doesn't mean anyone is responsible for you. There seems to be a ego-driven focus with "summiting", and while I define myself as a peakbagger, I also look for the overall lessons and experiences a trip has to offer. (But don't give me that line about "the mountain will always be there". Tell that to Mt. St. Helens.)

Climb Safe, Have Fun. Shasta is a grand mountain and has so much to offer.

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by MoapaPk » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:38 pm

I'm far from an expert mountaineer, though I've been doing snow climbs for 40 years (very sporadically!). I must reenforce self-arrest skills every year; else I'm uncomfortable. Maybe with your youth and athleticism, self-arrest skills will come naturally.

But this point is really hard to impress on people: how fast you can get going down a hard snow slope, very quickly. For that reason alone, you should consider the course offer. The main self -arrest "skill" is to avoid situations where you need to self-arrest.

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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by hikerbrian » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:06 pm

Avy Gulch isn't that steep. I know folks occassionally take long falls from Red Banks down to Helen Lake, but that requires some pretty special snow conditions (read: bullet proof). Test yourself on the easy sections down low (below Helen Lake) with self arrest. That'll build your confidence, give you practice, and tell you exactly how steep it needs to get for you to get out of control.

I think the things most likely to cause you serious problems are the weather and avalanche conditions. If it gets socked in while you're high on the mountain, you can find yourself in a true survival situation in a hurry. Similarly, since you haven't been on a big mountain, I suspect you don't know much about judging avalanche conditions. I don't know what to tell you there, except there's a reason it's called Avalanche Gulch. Also, have you ever camped on snow?

I think you can do this in a reasonably safe manner by continuously focusing on the present, and not getting too excited about how awesome it's going to be when you summit. Keeping the summit fever at bay, I predict, will be a major challenge for you, since this is by far the biggest mountain you've ever been on, or will be on for a long time. You're going to have to consider that problem very carefully. But if you can stay in the present and make good decisions, it's a reasonable challenge. Not the most conservative, and not the most daring feat we've heard of on these pages.

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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by hikerbrian » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:07 pm

Posted my above comment before I saw Moapa's - he's right, it ALL depends on snow conditions.

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RickF

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by RickF » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:00 am

Azzy,

I went solo up Avalanche Gulch on my first attempt of Shasta. I didn't summit but I learned a lot about the route and the mountain in general. I made it to a little above 11,000, which is about the base of the "Heart" the steepest section.

I learned some important lessons on that trip. Here are my brief words of advice.

First, bring enough water or bring a stove so you can melt snow to make water. The main reason I had to turn back at 11,000 feet is because I was low on water and I was rationing what I had left. I was attempting a day-trip so I didn't bring a stove and I thought I was carrying enough. I started cramping up and decided I couldn't make it the rest of the way up and then get back without more water.

Second, start early, like midnight or 2:00 a.m. The snow is firm early and if its sunny & warm the snow will turn to soggy mashed potato consistency by the mid afternoon. I was on skis and I didn't bring snow-shoes. My legs were cramping up and I couldn't keep skinning when it got steep so I tried walking but without snow shoes all I did was posthole. If I had started earlier I would have been above the steep section before the snow got too soft.

Although I didn't summit on that trip I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I spent almost eight hours getting from 7,000 feet to 11,000 feet and then 45 minutes skiing down.

The advantage I had over you is that I'd been to 14,000 on many previous outings. I also probably had more snow travel experience. My disadvantage compared to you is my age, I was 50 years on my first solo day-trip attempt of Shasta. But you know, 50 is the new 30! :)

Regarding going solo, It sounds to me like you are fully aware of the hazard and are completey willing to be responsible for yourself and not depend on anyone to help you. That's my philoshpy to my solo trips. I like my solo trips, but my wife and friends really don't like it when I go solo.

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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by goldenhopper » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:59 am

How did I miss this epic thread!!!???

Anyone else getting a heavy Mel Torino vibe?

Azzy, since you've never been above 7K knowing exactly how you will react to the altitude under the strain of the climb is a big unknown. You're young, so you got that going for you.

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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by atavist » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:26 pm

I can't wait til Monday to get some closure on this thing. Anybody volunteer to follow azzy up the hill and tweet hourly updates? Need some excitement while waiting for game 6...

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Denjem

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by Denjem » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:30 pm

I thought 50 was the new 45!? :lol:

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AriehDavid

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by AriehDavid » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:11 pm

Hey friend,

Just in the attempt to throw more weight into the list of people trying to discourage your solo attempt, I would agree with those on here who say DO NOT try this solo.

It is unethical to go into the mountains with any notion of relying on anyone other than those who have agreed to go with you.

Watching a video on-line does not guarantee they have the correct technique. Buy a copy of Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills, read-it, memorize it: it clearly documents the correct technique. But practicing self-arrest properly should be done, ultimately before heading off into a serious mountain environment, in a situation where the consequences of not arresting could be negative, which means having supervision. I practice self-arrest every time I go into the mountains. You will not know how to practice it without experience. Anyone can have sloppy technique and stop themselves sliding on your ass down a moderate slope. It's a 35 degree angle near Thumb Rock. Do you really think you'll have the capacity to stop yourself if you fall backwards, onto your back, rocketing down an icy slope upside-down? If you have any doubts about your ability to do that, then you're not prepared.

People have died or been severely injured on Avy Gulch in exactly such a scenario.

Please, dear friend: enjoy the mountains. Ensure your capacity to do so for the future by postponing your plans and trying something easier, with a partner, or taking a guided class. If you are truly too poor to afford a class, find SOMEONE who has experience to take you, because you are taking way to large of a risk. Sure, something may not happen, but that kind of gambling is not what good climbing sense dictates, and if you are beginning your career with that mentality, you're already off on a dangerous track.

Please reconsider.

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JB99

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by JB99 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:24 am

"If need be I will keep moving until I am quite literally unable..."

That's a dangerous attitude to have...

As far as what some of the other posters have said about, "you won't really be solo etc.," that's wrong, if you go up alone then you damn sure should be ready and responsible for yourself. Relying on the fact that it's a popular mountain and there will be other climbers there is about as negligent as you can get as a solo climber. Not one of those people agreed to have your back, and although of course any climber worth a shit will be there to help in a second, it sure isn't their responsibility and the selfishness of that idea is down right ridiculous. Sorry, I've never climbed Shasta to give any direct advice on the route, but just as someone with respect for the game I felt I should say something.

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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by OOG » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:44 am

Let it go folks. He left 2 days ago.

Only a matter of time until an SAR crew is recovering his frozen corpse from a crevasse in the Whitney glacier. :roll:

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by MoapaPk » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:46 am

I'm not quite in the "don't go solo" camp, because a lot of us do that. Touch wood-- but all my significant injuries/accidents have come when I was NOT solo (and I usually travel solo). My biggest slide (400' vertical before arrest) was when I trusted someone else to pick the route, and my own brain screamed "this is wrong." And I've helped some groups, who depended on my ability to move fast solo, to get aid.

What I emphasize instead is adjusting your behavior to fit the situation. When I'm solo, I'm acutely aware of my surroundings, and in a pretty alert mindset when I skirt dangerous situations. But because of some unpleasant experiences, I am very cautious when alone on steep snow.

My self-arrest training has consisted of flinging myself down steep hills and ski slopes. But I would argue that the best training I ever got was that 400' slide; too bad it took over 30 years, but I'm grateful to be here to talk about it. In a snow school, you can get closer to that right away.

Believe me azzy, you don't want to be in the position to make the decision: "do I aim for that rock, and possibly stop while just breaking my leg, or do I try to miss the rock, reach 80 mph, and possibly break my neck?" Maybe the odds are in your favor; I was lucky for 38 years.

As DMT put it, in good weather Shasta by Avy gulch is mainly a long slippery staircase of other peoples' footprints. It's been done successfully by people wearing running shoes; snow conditions and balance account for a lot. But all it takes is one shadow on the snow to change the conditions really quickly.

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JB99

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by JB99 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:02 am

Good point OOG, guess I should have read the dates closer... I'm on vacation so dates seem like arbitrary numbers at the moment. I wish the dude luck, and odds are if he tries it he will be just fine and have the awesome opportunity to throw his success in the naysayers faces, I certainly hope so, but climbing responsibly, particularly solo, is about being ready for and expectant of what you'll do if shit happens. And being on a popular route with a bunch of strangers that you hope will bail your ass out doesn't fit that criteria.

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Trawinski

 
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Re: Novice. Attempting Shasta solo this wknd(j11). Need advi

by Trawinski » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Judging by the latest webcam, I doubt Azzy made it too far. Can't wait to hear.

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