MikeTX wrote:Well, you know, I'm out to prove to the world that running is evil.

The point of the thread I started was to verify that you don't have to be a runner to be successful with big mountains. That's all.

I also like to run. I ran this weekend - not far, but I ran nonetheless.

I also agree that it's the most efficient means of cardiovascular training. Put on your shoes and go like the wind. It's great!

Still, it's reassuring to those of us who don't have great knees that there are alternatives to running. Not everyone can run 35 miles a week and not everyone lives with the Sierra in their back yard.

I have a reconstructed acl and osteoarthritis. I live 3 hours away from anything that could reasonably be called a hill and 12 hourse away from any mountains. It's good to hear that there's still hope for me if I want get up a big mountain.

MikeTX, You make some good points and I appreciate your post here. With all due respect, I'm out to prove that running is not evil, although I don't suggest that everyone should run. And certainly, running is not a prerequisite for success on mountains.

If not in the hills guiding/climbing, I make a point to do at least 3-4 LSR's each week of distances of up to 5 miles. Sometimes if I feel strong, I will push it to 7 or 8 miles.

Recently I worked myself to sustain a slow 10 minute mile pace from my long standing 8-8.5 minute mile pace. This keeps me right in Zone 2 (Endurance) at 60ish% of my max HR. I have found this to be perfect for keeping me aerobically in shape for my work at 12K plus. It also seems to be gentle on my recently rebuilt left knee. I run on a varying trail/dirt path platform with an altitude gain of 1000-1500' max. Oh yeah, I live at right around 7200'.

I like to run, especially on trails in the mountains near by home. Durning the week I do a couple of short, flat 8 mile runs from my office, and one 2 hour trail run. In addition I lift weights 2 - 3 x a week and do intervals on a stair machine once a week.

While my preferance is to go alpine climbing on the weekends, I will do long trail runs if for whatever reason I can't go (honey-dos, bad weather, other committments). I go between 3 and 9 hours in the mountains. I have a dedicated running partner who I go with.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:I like to run, especially on trails in the mountains near by home. Durning the week I do a couple of short, flat 8 mile runs from my office, and one 2 hour trail run. In addition I lift weights 2 - 3 x a week and do intervals on a stair machine once a week.

While my preferance is to go alpine climbing on the weekends, I will do long trail runs if for whatever reason I can't go (honey-dos, bad weather, other committments). I go between 3 and 9 hours in the mountains. I have a dedicated running partner who I go with.

What the heck happened to "Anecdotally, I am a short, fat, asthmatic, 40 something year old with a significant immunodeficiency. I do traditional workouts (a bit of running and weight lifting).

bird wrote:

ExcitibleBoy wrote:I like to run, especially on trails in the mountains near by home. Durning the week I do a couple of short, flat 8 mile runs from my office, and one 2 hour trail run. In addition I lift weights 2 - 3 x a week and do intervals on a stair machine once a week.

While my preferance is to go alpine climbing on the weekends, I will do long trail runs if for whatever reason I can't go (honey-dos, bad weather, other committments). I go between 3 and 9 hours in the mountains. I have a dedicated running partner who I go with.

What the heck happened to "Anecdotally, I am a short, fat, asthmatic, 40 something year old with a significant immunodeficiency. I do traditional workouts (a bit of running and weight lifting).

I am not in any way naturally athletic, but I try hard to make up for it.

I run 20-30 miles a week and do some core exercises. Since I ride a desk all day at work, it seems to be the only thing that keeps my back from being one giant knot.

Running is essentially the only training I do.

Usually in the 50-60 mile/wk range on nearly 100% mountain trails. In the peaks of training cycles I get up around 100 miles/week. I like to run 50 and 100 mile ultras... so the training for that is excellent crossover for mountaineering. I actually starting running ultras so mountaineering would be easier and more fun, while allowing me to climb more mountains in a day.

I generally found running to be drudgery. But with age I was relieved to let it go in order to lesson the impact on joints. I walk, but call it "power walking" for my ego as it is a sustained fast pace interspersed with spurts of short sprints or one to two minute jogs (WOG walk-jog).

battledome wrote:I run 20-30 miles a week and do some core exercises. Since I ride a desk all day at work, it seems to be the only thing that keeps my back from being one giant knot.

Battledome, I know what you mean, I sit at a desk too many hours and spend another 3 hours per day behind the wheel commuting.

I contend running is the most efficient form of aerobic conditioning for mountaineering (short of climbing every day). The mistake most people make, and thus the injuries, is spending too much time pounding the pavement. Asphalt and concrete are amazingly unforgiving surfaces and lead to many overuse injuries. Keep your running on the trails that you love and you will be rewarded!

Do very many people here combine long-distance running for its own sake, with frequent mountaineering or backpacking in your lifestyles? or do most of you run relatively short distances (2-5-ish miles) just as your mid-week workouts and save your endurance for the mountains only? Those in the former group, do you find mountaineering helps your running, or vice versa, or both, or do they get in the way of each other? Do you break them into their own seasons, or maintain your conditioning for both at the same time?

I've just run a half-marathon, and am addicted and want to train for a full one, but it's ski touring season soon, and then next spring/summer i want to climb some big (to me, e.g. Rainier) mountains, and of course i'd also rather not give up mountain biking for a whole season either, but all that would overlap training for, say, a September marathon. I have an overtraining habit as it is...

seanpeckham wrote:Do very many people here combine long-distance running for its own sake, with frequent mountaineering or backpacking in your lifestyles?

I race ultra marathons and find trail running really helps climbing, but climbing does not help my running.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:

seanpeckham wrote:Do very many people here combine long-distance running for its own sake, with frequent mountaineering or backpacking in your lifestyles?

I race ultra marathons and find trail running really helps climbing, but climbing does not help my running.

I would tend to agree here... though some of my long "runs" are more akin to mountaineering, so the line sometimes is fuzzy. Is a race like the Hardrock 100 more like a run or more like a mountaineering trip? Sometimes I can't tell.

Running *definitely* helps my mountaineering. The right kind of mountaineering probably helps my running too... at least for the types of ultras I run. I doubt it would do much for, say, flat fast road races like 10k or half-marathons.