Dave, if you become familiar with the craft of nailing it will complement your clean aid skills and help prepare you for some long routes. Ya gotta learn by doing the nailing on many shorter routes because pin placement and removal can have as many subtleties as placing a nut or tricam or other device. If you seldom use pins you will also not learn some of the things-not-to-do with them. So go ahead and explore this new/old territory.

HandjamMasterC wrote:Daves nailed about a dozen with me if I remember correctly, and cleaned 2 dozen of mine ( including some stacks ).

Oh yeah one thing I forgot what this good link

http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/articles/p ... ncraft.pdf

This is quite good - thanks for posting it !!!

You should check out the other articles on their website. Lots of good stuff.

JD - I don't think that it's the "Canadian" pdf's that are the problem!

Someone on neice.com recommended that PDF to me when I asked about pitons on ice / mixed lines (I was able to print it out no problem - let me know if you want a copy Jim). I hate to digress, but does anyone of that, uh, persuasion have recommendations on what to carry ? I'm thinking of picking up a couple to practice placing / cleaning in places like Lee Vining Canyon, roadcuts, etc.

For Ice I usually keep a few bugaboo knife-blades as they are the only things that go into thin cracks securely and are relatively light and easy to place.

That being said I haven't place one ice or mixed climbing in about 5 years and I alway leave them behind well for the two times I place one I did.

I always find it strange that climbers who would never in a 1000 years nail a pin in summer will place then in the winter??? A very funny case of situational ethics.

cheers

Rob,
I left three kb's at the top of the right side of Horsetail falls a couple of years ago, when a hasty retreat was necessary as night was approaching and temperatures were falling like crazy...

And John,
Doesn't it seem like people are usually climbing a lot more "off the beaten track" during the winter than during the summer? I seem to find myself doing that, anyway. Maybe that's why people don't hesitate as much to throw a pin in during winter, I dunno.

I foresee myself nailing more pins on routes that haven't seen a second ascent. Not gonna list 'em but that was the purpose of the initial question. didn't know this was going to turn into a 'How to aid climb' thread.

Thanks again Craig, Carolyn and John. I managed to get some practice with the baby angles and knifeblades last weekend.

About knifeblades, do you normally just carry the BD #1 (for the purposes noted above - ice/mixed/couloirs/etc) ? I see that BD also makes a slighly longer KB (#2), and also some they call Bugaboos, which appear to be even thicker and longer (#3-6). Or would it be better to just equalize smaller nuts for those size cracks ?

(BD specs)

If I think I'll need blades, I'll carry 3 or 4 different lengths and thicknesses of KB and Bugs. You generally can't use nuts in a knifeblade seam / crack, hence the need for blades!

very informative thread and great PDF link!

I'd been wondering about the use of pitons for winter climbing (need, ethics, etc.), and what would be a reasonable rack to carry for such climbs if they were worth bringing on certain climbs (and what types of climbs those would be).

PellucidWombat wrote:very informative thread and great PDF link!

I'd been wondering about the use of pitons for winter climbing (need, ethics, etc.), and what would be a reasonable rack to carry for such climbs if they were worth bringing on certain climbs (and what types of climbs those would be).

I've got a couple pins of various sizes (KB's, angles, and one LA) and I carried them for a season and never placed a single one while on the sharp end.

I've come to the realization that carrying pins does not make me any cooler, only weighs me down, and will likely never be placed unless I'm on a route with the following qualifications:

-Multipitch
-Alpine setting
-Mixed terrain
-Not easy (At least WI 4-, M4)

On anything else, you won't find any placements or the climbing will be easy enough that stopping to find a placement and hammer in a pin isn't really worth the objective danger. ight as well just casually stroll on up another 20 feet and fire in a fat screw.

Obviously these are generalizations, and there are always exceptions to the rule (especially in climbing) but I've found them to be a pretty good set of guidelines.