gregorpatsch wrote:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/phys-ed-can-running-actually-help-your-knees/

I remember seeing this. As my 82 year old father-in-law says "Use it or lose it!"

bird wrote:

gregorpatsch wrote:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/phys-ed-can-running-actually-help-your-knees/

I remember seeing this. As my 82 year old father-in-law says "Use it or lose it!"

I generally agree, but one should be careful how you "use it."

I've seen many people out pounding their knees and most of them could have just walked fast with very little impact and the same results. Walking up hills is great and take a pack if you need it to be harder. When I use a pack I take big water bottles and then dump it all at the top.

Exactly. How much running do you do in the mountains? None generally. Find the steepest longest hill you can find and do laps on it if you have to with a a pack and water in it. I do this going up Tiger Mountain/PooPoo point/Mount Si/Granite Mountain.

OR do it the way the paraglider folks do it. Paraglider kit weighs in around 30-40lbs or more depending on whose carrying what. Yes, it can be lighter but not generally. Hike to the top of PooPoo point on the Chiroco Trail 1.9miles 1500 feet gain and fly down saving your knees...

Brian

albanberg wrote:

bird wrote:

gregorpatsch wrote:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/phys-ed-can-running-actually-help-your-knees/

I remember seeing this. As my 82 year old father-in-law says "Use it or lose it!"

I generally agree, but one should be careful how you "use it."

I've seen many people out pounding their knees and most of them could have just walked fast with very little impact and the same results. Walking up hills is great and take a pack if you need it to be harder. When I use a pack I take big water bottles and then dump it all at the top.

gregorpatsch wrote:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/phys-ed-can-running-actually-help-your-knees/

I didn't have time to read the article but from researching in the past, I have read that running *can* indeed strengthen your knees but it is very crucial to use the right technique. That said, walking is just as good and you don't need technique, so there's really no point in running if all you want to do is make your knees stronger.

Wastral wrote:How much running do you do in the mountains? None generally.

I run in the mountains a lot.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:

Wastral wrote:How much running do you do in the mountains? None generally.

I run in the mountains a lot.

So do I, but virtually always on downhills. There are some trails that I have been on so many times, that I always run down them to get it done without falling into a coma. I also jog downhill in trailless areas when the scree/gravel is the right consistency. Sometimes I check my time and find out this "jogging" is averaging only 4-5 mph.

Actually, my "running" down steep scree looks more like rappelling sideways without the rope. I learned a Scottish term for my style yesterday: "haggis-walking".

I don't mind the pain of a climb, but I hate the pain I feel during and after running. I've climbed Rainier, and the bulk of my training was on an elliptical at the gym, in addition to tons of hiking. Today I train by hiking a TON, and I put miles on my bike.

I have achilles tendonitis. Physical therapy hasn't worked, anti-inflammatory medication hasn't helped, orthtotics have failed too. I can throw down miles on the trail with no same day issues. Sometimes, the following day sucks. Most days I just suffer in silence. I'm headed to get a third opinion though, since my most recent doctor is like Dr. Nick Riviera from the Simpsons and has done nothing to help me.

Biking and elliptical training are really low impact, but still enable me to get in a workout. My preferred workout is on the bike. I'll bike up a long, sustained, steep hill, repeatedly. The only rest time I take is while coasting back down. As was mentioned earlier, it mimicks the slow burn of hiking.

Edited to add additional info.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:

Wastral wrote:How much running do you do in the mountains? None generally.

I run in the mountains a lot.

Dan...I know I'm setting myself to get my ass kicked by you next week...but didn't you say in an earlier thread..."Anecdotally, I am a short, fat, asthmatic, 40 something year old with a significant immunodeficiency. I do traditional workouts (a bit of running and weight lifting). "
Like I said, I'm setting myself up for a butt whooping...but I couldn't resist.

I recently integrated stair running in my training.

I used to do a lot of swimming but although you get in excellent cardiovascular shape, your legs turn soft.

So with stairrunning I train the muscles in my legs without the huge impact on knees, hip, etc.

Gave up running 20 years ago (knee injury) Climbed Rainier 3 times and lots of other hard stuff. There's 2 types of muscles, strong and quick. Running more works the quick ones, hiking with a pack works the strong ones.

I don't train anymore, just go on hikes/climbs enough to maintain. When I did train would find a short steep hill and walk up with a 50lbs pack pushing a bike, then ride the bike down to save the knees and keep the climbing continuous, doing about 1000 ft gain. When I did long training hikes would take 50 lbs in water weight and pour it out before going back down, again to save the knees.

I didn't quite make the summit of Mont Blanc but have some input. I cross trained, not specifically for one sport to help the other, but because I liked several sports - Rock climbing, mountaineering, bike racing and Badminton at International level, now recognised at the fastest sport in the world. The training was brutal, and I took great precaution against injury by warming up, stretching. After activity, warming down and more stretching. The one time I didn't adequately warm up, I injured my knee. Now 55 I keep up the stretching and bike hard and play Tournament Badminton without any problems. I figure that the range of motion, the different stresses all combined to create a solid system. One activity type can leave parts of the body weaker. If you want to stretch, do it very progressively. Stretching increases strength without increasing mass and gives more power over an extended range of motion. Here is a top level sport whose action may surprise many of you. View full screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knv0Mbcq ... re=related

If I do run, I go off road.

My general activity, whatever sport is: Warm up, stretch. When away from the mountains, a daily Bike 10 miles or a Hike, then stretch. For extra strength training, I've mainly worked on the ligaments as a torn one takes much longer to repair than a muscle.

Wastral wrote:Exactly. How much running do you do in the mountains? None generally.

eh?

I do almost *all* of my running in the mountains. Why would you run anywhere else?

RickandRhonda wrote:I have achilles tendonitis. Physical therapy hasn't worked, anti-inflammatory medication hasn't helped, orthtotics have failed too. I can throw down miles on the trail with no same day issues. Sometimes, the following day sucks. Most days I just suffer in silence. I'm headed to get a third opinion though, since my most recent doctor is like Dr. Nick Riviera from the Simpsons and has done nothing to help me.

If you're still having issues email me. An ultrarunner friend of mine was having achilles issues earlier in the year. He's since run a couple 100s so I can ask what treatment did the trick. I realize it's unscientific but it can't hurt.