For anyone that spends 5+ days in cold mountain conditions, what sort of pack do you use and how do you pack?

I have a Mountain Hardware Direttissima [52L] and Gregory Shasta [85L]. Even with my Gregory bag it's tough to fit everything I need:

North Face Mountain 25
REI Kilo Expedition -20 bag
Mess kit/stove
Food
Crampons
Axe
Ground cover
Socks/underwear
Sleeping pad
2nd pair of lighter boots

Also what's the weight you can usually get your packs down to? It's tough for me to get under 40lbs. I constantly fight the urge to leave behind things I don't absolutely need.

well you could lose the 'ground cover' and 2nd pair of boots, for starters. surely not necessary on a 5-day trip?

really depends where you're going and what you're doing - that will affect things greatly. i see you have no rope or climbing hardware in your list? they are a major factor if doing a technical route, though on the route you will probably not actually carry the rope for much.

if it's non-technical, i would have thought you could fit all that gear in a 50litre bag no problem, even if the sleeping bag is bulky. if it's a foam mat (Ridgrest etc then it's on the outside, like the axe. crampons can also go outside if necessary, fastened by bungee cord or side-straps.

so:
1. if you have the tent and the stove/pot, what is your partner carrying? hardware/rope?
2. how much food do you take?!!

D

Damien Gildea wrote:well you could lose the 'ground cover' and 2nd pair of boots, for starters. surely not necessary on a 5-day trip?

really depends where you're going and what you're doing - that will affect things greatly. i see you have no rope or climbing hardware in your list? they are a major factor if doing a technical route, though on the route you will probably not actually carry the rope for much.

if it's non-technical, i would have thought you could fit all that gear in a 50litre bag no problem, even if the sleeping bag is bulky. if it's a foam mat (Ridgrest etc then it's on the outside, like the axe. crampons can also go outside if necessary, fastened by bungee cord or side-straps.

so:
1. if you have the tent and the stove/pot, what is your partner carrying? hardware/rope?
2. how much food do you take?!!

D

Thanks for the quick reply...

It's obvious that I like to over-prepare. Plus I do a lot of trips solo. If I had a 2nd or 3rd person, over-preparing wouldn't be such a problem and I would be much more likely to do technical routes on multi-day trips.

I'm talking about a relatively non-technical route that only may require an axe and crampons. 2nd pair of boots is probably unnecessary but I don't like walking around in my plastic boots. I climb to the approach of a mountain, setup camp, summit, and explore the area for 3 days, and hike down. Second pair of (lighter) boots was for during the exploratory days.

For food I bring mostly carb stuff like granola and dried fruit during the day and fatty/protein stuff for at night (jerky, nuts, ramen noodles).

I could definitely leave out the ground cover.

If I had dogs I would probably bring a sled of gear

I just get a little nervous about under-preparing. I think I just need to bite the bullet and try packing everything on the smaller pack. Maybe even forcing me to pack appropriately. [/i]

ah well, if you're solo then look at a smaller tent - a Hilleberg Akto, or similar, or even a BD Firstlight if you think you won't have any heavy wind or precip. you'll save a kilo or three and lose a lot of bulk.

and while you're at it solving your problems by buying more gear you may want to see if you can handle the temps in a more flexible single boot, or some other boot - plastics may be overkill for what you do technically, and maybe a warm but flexible boot that can take a crampon would be better (also experiment with a vapor barrier liner sock, tho they're not for everybody, but they can enable single-boot use in cold temps by keeping them dry inside).

that's a pretty serious bag you have there too - are you regularly in -30C? if not then maybe experiment with a lighter, less-bulky bag and use clothes as extra insulation, as you have them anyway. a smaller tent will be warmer too - less space to heat.

so before you've bought all this new stuff, see if you can borrow some less heavy-duty gear and try it closer to home in non-critical situations - not 5-day backcountry mountain trips. try out a -5C bag in -10C? you can suffer anything for a night.

oh, and for 5 days you definitely don't need any extra underwear!

D

Don't dump your sleeping pad?

It adds to your warmth at night + it's more comfortable to sleep on + it's weight is pretty low.

sjarelkwint wrote: ... with that sleepingbag you can sleep warm in minus 10 degrees and lay comfortable on snow, use your clothes as a sleepingpad ...

For a night? Maybe. For 5 days? No way. He shouldn't be carrying enough clothes to be able to use them as a sleeping pad, and if he used the clothes he'd been wearing they would freeze overnight.

So you've done this a lot?

You don't like the extra weight but you go backpacking in the Ardennes wearing your Nepal Extremes...just saying


Imo sleeping comfort is one of those thing you shouldn't skimp on by leaving your pad at home.

sjarelkwint wrote:

BrunoM wrote:You don't like the extra weight but you go backpacking in the Ardennes wearing your Nepal Extremes...just saying

Those are the only boots I ever felt comfortable in ... I have week ankles and I just fall because of those ankles, with my nepal extremes I never had that problem ... Just feel more safe/comfortable in those WAY TOO heavy boots ...

My sleeping pad needs replacements and it almost has no isolation value or added comfort, that's why I don't take it with me I think ...

Time for a new pad then? Santa Claus is coming this week.

Id agree with most above, (except to not bring a pad) and repeat...first off a mountain 25 is WAY TO HEAVY for a solo climber. I know new gear is expensive, but there are several single wall 4 season tents that weigh about 4 lbs or less, that should save you 9 - 10 lbs! aslo like said above -20 bag, be sure you need this. Carry the pad on the outside of your pack, and they make insulated pads, that might allow you to go with a lighter sleeping bag (wear your parka to sleep in, or spread it over your bag {of course}). Also, one pair of boots, and wear them, you can bring down booties for around camp, but to pack extra boots.......at least it is not my style. Just trying to help.

check out the MSR fury. its bigger and lighter than the mountain25. the fury is 94 inches long on the interior. the mountain is only 80. fury has a bigger vestibule. my personal choice would be the single wall eldorado from black diamond. the bibler toddtex fabric is bomber. i believe the dimensions are about the same as the fury on the smaller side. as far as pack.. id love to have the gregory whitney 95 when i have the mulah.

packing small...
i take my 3/4 inflatable, 20 degree down bag, 1p tent and gcloth and put it all in one compression sack and get it as small as possible (about 3/4 the size of a basketball when im done). i mean rele rele small... i can backpack a week out of my 2950ci gregory gpack. ive never had to sacrafice anything to make it work either. the compression sack key or it wouldnt work.

As others said - the mountain 25 is far to heavy if you are going alone. If you are looking only for a short trips - a small solo tent like the Akto is great!. For long trips I would look for a light and small 2 person tent. I used the TNF Westwind for a long time and replaced it now by MH EV direct 2. A lot of space, easy setup and sturdy. The Hilleberg Soulo is also a very good and spacy solo tent.
Gert

leaving the sleeping pad at home on a long winter trip is terrible advice.

I agree with Kevin. I take two pads in the winter (Prolite 4 regular and 3/4 Z-Rest) and still can use a 55L pack for winter technical trips. It's less of an issue of leaving things behind than having the lightest gear. I picked up a Western Mountaineering Antelope sleeping bag, BD Firstlight Tent and a comfy pair of La Sportiva Nepal EVO boots which collectively saved me a ton of weight and bulk in my pack and eliminated the need for more than one pair of boots.

DanielWade wrote:I agree with Kevin. I take two pads in the winter (Prolite 4 regular and 3/4 Z-Rest) and still can use a 55L pack for winter technical trips.

Interesting.

My winter setup is the inverse: a full lenth Ridgerest and a 3/4 length Prolite 4. Do they make 3/4 length Z-Rests or did you just hack a full size one down?

Regardless, I concur that omitting the sleeping pad is a bad idea for winter camping.

i also usually question the conventional wisdom of carrying a voluminous (albeit lightweight) sleeping pad on back-country forays - personally, i find zero added comfort from such pads on the vast majority of substrates - so for me, warmth is the only factor - my criteria are snow or extreme cold - if i am literally going to be sleeping on top of the snow or i anticipate temperatures significantly less than 20 F, then i bring a cheap blue foam pad (lightest weight, but least comfortable?) - even for lengthier trips in wet conditions hovering around the freezing mark, i will omit the pad, but agreed that for true winter conditions, the warmth factor is critical - the sleeping pad is not heavy and is easy to throw into your car and later attach to your backpack - however, if traveling for example, by buses in latin america, the extra space from a pad strapped to the outside of a pack can be a huge inconvenience

returning to the OP's question, dropping the spare boots should help - i also own a TNF 25 tent and find that i never use it because its so dang heavy and i generally travel solo - i just invested in a black diamond single wall tent that weighs 1/3 as much as the north face tent - there are plenty of reasonably sturdy tents coming in at 5 lbs and under, but they aren't cheap and they still generally aren't quite as bomber as your current digs - a good down sleeping bag (850+ fill) should also help considerably - plus, for example, a high end 0 F down bag (WM, FF, etc) should be nearly as warm as your -20 F REI bag and the weight/space differential will even allow you to bring an extra warm layer if necessary - of course good down also is not cheap - anyway, good luck - just try dropping items one at a time so you can make sure you are reducing weight responsibly without giving up too much comfort/safety