I still have not filled out the survey. They also could have local gatherings at the local rock gym. Other climbers there could get interested and want to join

I agree on the insurance issue. I know in some states the best and cheapest rescue insurance available is a fishing license.

Personally, I am very ambivalent about the AAC. I've been a member for nearly 30 years and keep my membership primarily to get the AAJ and for the insurance.

My current ambivalence revolves around the AACs support of the Access Fund. I think the Access Fund misses the point.

Most other outdoor groups that have some sort of activist fund concentrate on conservation, recognizing that preservation and responsible stewardship is key to the sport.

However, the Access Fund seems to be bent on "access" alone, with a "screw the wilderness" attitude. For instance, when there was a debate on placing permanent anchors in designated wilderness areas, the argument should have been to uphold the letter and intent of the wilderness law. That is, to restrict human impact and prohibit the placement of permanent human fixtures in the wilderness. Afterall, the the wilderness is what matters.

But was that the position of the Access Fund? No the AAC and the Access Fund argued that climbers should be able to do whatever the hell they want, regardless if an area has been designated as being protected.

So for now, I'm an AAC member just to get the AAJ.

Haliku wrote:The Annual Benefit & Awards dinner this year is 20 Feb. It is $150/250 for members (single/couple) and $200/$300 for non members. Cheers!

welle wrote:I completed the survey, but yeah, I'd like electronic library and also more regional local events that are more accessible. Not $300 pp black-tie dinners!

I looked back at my local chapter Annual benefit dinner invite and it's $200 for members, still too much for an average climber, I think. This pretty much eliminates most younger active climbers. Then you look back at the benefit photos, and you only see older people in their black-tie attire, which makes the club look more like the Exlporers Club. Not an ideal image you want to project to prospective members, IMO. Nothing against the age, it's just not good for attracting new members. I see this happening to many clubs like ADK, AMC, Sierra and many local ski clubs. Clubs that used to be invitation only or you needed to get sponsored in order to join, members used to guard the exclusivity. By the time they realize their memberships are dwindling, it's almost too late as there is a huge generational gap which makes it tough to attract people in their 20s and 30s.

Cascade Scrambler wrote:

MarthaP wrote:

Cookie Addict wrote:

MarthaP wrote:I'd probably submit such well-thought requests directly to the AAC instead of a mountain forum.

The thought was to do exactly that, though with more voices than my own. One person squawking is an annoyance, but when a group has something to say, there is a better chance of being heard. A thread spelling out observed deficiencies and wants would speak volumes as some on the members of the AAC staff also belong to SP...

Sure, but I doubt an AAC board or staff member is going to come to the website just to see what's being said.

So obviously, no discussion should take place, right?

I rather like that Cookie Addict has brought this topic up for discussion prior to potentially submitting some ideas.

No, I didn't say discussion shouldn't take place. But just understand what ALL non-profits face these days and that, as I said, they're all pressed with under-staffing and greatly reduced budgets.

And yes, it would be great to look at your beefs but offer some workable solutions! Trust me when I say it would be appreciated much more than folks just wailing about issues.

C ya. I'm done here.

MarthaP wrote:No, I didn't say discussion shouldn't take place. But just understand what ALL non-profits face these days and that, as I said, they're all pressed with under-staffing and greatly reduced budgets.

And yes, it would be great to look at your beefs but offer some workable solutions! Trust me when I say it would be appreciated much more than folks just wailing about issues.

C ya. I'm done here.

I agree with you since I don't expect AAC to be experts in insurance, etc. There are a few things I think AAC can do a little better.
1. Library. Current system is a mess. Using emails and such to track books. Why not use free open source to do the library catalogue? For example: Koha.
2. AAJ. I would like to see online edition with nice photos (pdf would be nice). One reason I subscribe to Alpinist is its large format, wonderful photos. Some climbs I'll never do, but just to know things are out there make me want to climb harder.

Sierra Ledge Rat's note about the fishing license is correct. Some states (Co & UT) include a S&R $.25 surcharge and it might be more cost effective for climbers in those states or visiting those states to do just as he suggests, but for those climbers outside of the states that offer this surcharge and for those of us who climb internationally, full time, high limit coverage for mountain rescue is a benefit that is very attractive. The Alpine Club/British Mountaineering Council and the Swiss Alpine Club offers their members collective rates on Rescue Insurance (as well as Life Insurance, Mortgage Protection, Income Protection if there is an accident related to climbing/travel)

The AAC has negotiated with Global Rescue for an "additional yearly membership." For an individual under the age of 75 it costs $312.55 (5% off retail for Joe off the street) in addition to our $75 AAC Membership. It is great coverage (I have it), but is limited in that you have to be gone less than 45 days, have to be at least 160 miles from home, and in need of direct hospitalization. So, if I were to fall into a crevasse on Rainer (45 miles from home) and for some reason I could on extract my self (not enough rope) and my partner couldn't help, then Global Rescue would not cover the rescue. I would like to see a little more than a 5% discount considering the potential client base the AAC can muster.

Negotiations with insurance companies is Voodoo, I do not doubt that, but taking a sheet of paper noting in Bold Large Font an organization of 8,000+ stable members speaks VOLUMES when trying to up the basic 5K coverage with the underwriters. For a $100 bucks a year BMC offers 20K GBP ($32.5K) in rescue coverage. I believe that some research and open book price comparison with the insurance companies in play could lead to higher limits for the same price. My company just did the same with out short/long term illness coverage. It wasn't a secret negotiation - we showed companies A, B, & C what the other deals were and ended up getting better coverage. My $.02 worth...

MarthaP wrote:....And yes, it would be great to look at your beefs but offer some workable solutions! Trust me when I say it would be appreciated much more than folks just wailing about issues.

C ya. I'm done here.

Um... Did you not actually read the above posts?!? "Wailing"?

There were a number of cost free/low cost solutions proposed for the evolution of the Organization, a proposal to make local gatherings more accessible, an idea to increase insurance coverage, a tool for library updating, etc... Good to know that you are "done" maybe we can all move forward concerning other ways to help the AAC be a better resource.

SpiderSavage wrote:AAJ should be online. If I'm going to climb something big I'm coming here to do research, not the AAJ

The AAJ has been online for years: http://aaj.americanalpineclub.org/

Fully searchable: http://www.americanalpineclub.org/aajsearch