Dingus Milktoast wrote:I want to warn you Luddites about forcing an e-ban on your kids... you make them at once special in a good way and special in a bad way.

When they are teenagers they aren't going to forget all the cool shows and events you caused them to miss.

When they are 30-something they may come to appreciate it. Maybe not.

Just remember what it was like to be a kid.

DMT

ps. You cannot make your kids pariah just so they will fall in love with outdoors. THEY have a generation the same was as you do. Its theirs and you CANNOT take it away. Don't try...

Dingus,
I understand the danger. The e-ban is going to be gradually lifted. Many people do consider TV or computer games to be really detrimental to adequate development in early childhood. I subscribe to that view as well. Of course, one cannot take children outside of their generation but one might try to limit the "damage".

SpiderSavage wrote:...Part of my success was due to convincing my whole family to willingly give up cable television in the early 1990's. I would read to my kids from adventure books like Harry Potter then translate that into real life adventures. My son and I once did a "Lord of the Rings" overnight hike up Millard Canyon carrying only a blanket, some lembas (power bar) and a few magic items like lighter and flashlight. My grown children thank me repeatedly for freeing them from the slave box...

This is wisdom X10. Wish I had it when my son was still impressionable.... Wonder if I could pull it off with the grandkids now...

butitsadryheat wrote:

It is in young kids' nature to whine about all things hard and that require determination. I keep telling my kids that they are getting great exercise, and that "we only have a little bit to go" and they groan, but when we get to the top, or to the destination we were looking to get, they always want to stay a little longer and let a bit more sink in before we have to leave. It always turns out to be "my favorite trip ever," even though they complained the same amount as the time before. almost every trip has been a bit longer than the last, and they are growing to love it.

Nice...it's very similar to my kids. It costs a lot of nerves to endure the endless complaining on the way... but once we are there...yes "it's the best ever". However when asked "Do you want to do it again next weekend" the answer is usually "No way"

I have two kids, one goes with me the other doesn't , but tried them both out as a teens. Try getting your kids to invite a friend. You'll learn a little about their friends and maybe the friend will think the outdoors is fun. It's easier if the kids have peers doing things with. My Dad just signed up my older brother and sister with the Seattle Mountaineers and I took the Basic climbing course when I was old enough with a friend. Every one is different, but I'm sure glad my Dad got me going to the hills. Latter, I even took up snowboarding when my kids needed rides with their friends to Mt Baker. My thinking was if they want to do something that will include me...I need to do it. Tough to raise kids now...always. I wish you and others the best. Wow! I think I could write a book no one would read....

Norman wrote:I have two kids, one goes with me the other doesn't , but tried them both out as a teens. Try getting your kids to invite a friend.

Thanks. That's actually a very good idea I think. I am sure my kids are not complaining as much when their friends are with them.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:For what its worth I don't think all those e-devices are evil or even necessarily bad for kids. Actually I think the opposite. I think they are good and empower kids to be part of their society, to actually MAKE that society.

The ties that bind.

I can talk Leave it to Beaver with many of my generation, and using the language of the Beeve can exchange meaningful information.

Now imagine if I'd never watched any 60s television... now try to communicate to a BOOMER without a generational anchor... good luck with that.

Embrace the technology. Oh... have some rules, to be sure. But don't cast technology out with the devil... next you'll be ranting about zippers!

DMT

I completely understand you, Dingus. I also think that depriving them from all the e-toys and online activities is not necessarily a good thing. I don't want them feeling estranged from their friends and not able to communicate about the latest online news and gadgets. But at times it's simply too much. There are times that my daughter sent 10 text messages before I can say "Hi" after school.

borut wrote:
The first pic is really tough, I thought.

borut

Yes, it was a steep part but they enjoyed the few minutes a lot, in contrast to the rest of the day which was much easier.

Most of the best ideas have already been mentioned

1 Scrambles over long hikes (See this trip reoprt for my discovery of this principal: http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/399576/Scrambling-with-an-11-Year-Old.html

2 Lots of Food as reward at end of day
3 Have them bring friends, or bring their fun crazy uncle
4 Relax at night
5 Plan for Swimming holes along the way if possible
6 Rest day to do tourist stuff (mini golf etc)

Sbrande wrote:Most of the best ideas have already been mentioned

3 Have them bring friends, or bring their fun crazy uncle

That's ME! I'm the crazy uncle that knows this stuff around L.A. Here's what my nephews/nieces have found fun and interesting:

Since you're in L.A., try some of the lower peaks with great views: Sandstone Peak and/or Malibu Creek in the Santa Monica Mountains, maybe the peaks around Big Bear Lake (crowded Bertha Peak or lonely Gold Mountain, both with great views on top). All are around 3 miles one way/ 6 mile RT.

Maybe drop a few $$$ and do the hike up Mt. San Jacinto from the Palm Springs Tram? Costly, and longer (11 miles RT at higher elevation), but the Tram ride is pretty cool for a noob, Round Valley Meadow looks cool, Wellmans Divide's view is great, and the summit view is always pretty spectacular for the first time. Also fun to go out to Josuha Tree NP and scramble around, drive up to Keys View for the great overlook of the Coachella Valley, and maybe mountain biking on the fire roads in the park, too.

Just some suggestions . . .

Sbrande wrote:Most of the best ideas have already been mentioned

1 Scrambles over long hikes (See this trip reoprt for my discovery of this principal: http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/399576/Scrambling-with-an-11-Year-Old.html

2 Lots of Food as reward at end of day
3 Have them bring friends, or bring their fun crazy uncle
4 Relax at night
5 Plan for Swimming holes along the way if possible
6 Rest day to do tourist stuff (mini golf etc)

...sounds like a plan

many thanks

phydeux wrote:

Sbrande wrote:Most of the best ideas have already been mentioned

3 Have them bring friends, or bring their fun crazy uncle

That's ME! I'm the crazy uncle that knows this stuff around L.A. Here's what my nephews/nieces have found fun and interesting:

Since you're in L.A., try some of the lower peaks with great views: Sandstone Peak and/or Malibu Creek in the Santa Monica Mountains, maybe the peaks around Big Bear Lake (crowded Bertha Peak or lonely Gold Mountain, both with great views on top). All are around 3 miles one way/ 6 mile RT.

Maybe drop a few $$$ and do the hike up Mt. San Jacinto from the Palm Springs Tram? Costly, and longer (11 miles RT at higher elevation), but the Tram ride is pretty cool for a noob, Round Valley Meadow looks cool, Wellmans Divide's view is great, and the summit view is always pretty spectacular for the first time. Also fun to go out to Josuha Tree NP and scramble around, drive up to Keys View for the great overlook of the Coachella Valley, and maybe mountain biking on the fire roads in the park, too.

Just some suggestions . . .

Thanks for the suggestions. The tram in Palm Springs certainly will impress them. And I like the High Country in that area a lot. Joshua Tree sounds great too. A lot of bouldering there to do. Thanks again.

-Go at their pace. (I always have to watch myself here, as I'm a normally fast hiker.) Struggling to keep up with dad or make X miles in Y time to get to camp before dark prob'ly isnt' their idea of a good time.

-Make it fun for them. (We might enjoy "roughing it" in a bivy sack, but doesn't mean the kids necessarily will.) So far, I haven't made my kids carry their own packs yet, though they'll start with light loads this summer.

-Set low expecations at first, and then gradually work up from there. A fun two-hour afternoon hike will make them want to go out again more than a two-day slogfest through the rain and mud. (Hell, just getting the kids away from all the damned screens is a success in my book!)

-Know that, at the end of the day, all kids are different and some just may not dig hiking/climbing/camping and that's OK. Love 'em just as much anyway.

Alpinisto wrote:-Go at their pace. (I always have to watch myself here, as I'm a normally fast hiker.) Struggling to keep up with dad or make X miles in Y time to get to camp before dark prob'ly isnt' their idea of a good time.

-Make it fun for them. (We might enjoy "roughing it" in a bivy sack, but doesn't mean the kids necessarily will.) So far, I haven't made my kids carry their own packs yet, though they'll start with light loads this summer.

-Set low expecations at first, and then gradually work up from there. A fun two-hour afternoon hike will make them want to go out again more than a two-day slogfest through the rain and mud. (Hell, just getting the kids away from all the damned screens is a success in my book!)

-Know that, at the end of the day, all kids are different and some just may not dig hiking/climbing/camping and that's OK. Love 'em just as much anyway.

Great advice, thanks. Nice words at the end.