ShortTimer wrote:Yeah, I pulled Waugh off of the crux of Left Ski Track at Josh. Problem was his pro pulled and he crushed me. At least I caught my leader!



And I am firmly in the palm down, thumb facing the belay device camp. Anything else does NOT have the power and control to hold a BIG fall.

Thanks the way I've always done it and it's been really handy at times, although it's caused me some grief at climbing gyms. I was at the rock gym at Berkeley and this well known local (he's called the mayor of Indian Rocks or something like that) kept telling me 'no, no, no, you're doing it wrong!' I finally looked at him and asked 'how do you want me to do it?' He seemed really surprised but then showed me the gym approved method, which I copied, and I got my pass.

TheOrglingLlama wrote:Sierras

Sierra- no s. Just my 2 cents on a slow day

Just to add to MVS's rant: got corrected for my belay at the gym by a gym climber and a boulderer for eff's sake last Friday - arghhhh!

squishy wrote:How do you rappel, palm down or up?

I usually belay palm up, rap palm down. In both cases, it seems like a more natural position.

this also is why i prefer not to climb in gyms, but every gym has to come up with their policies, and to keep with their liability protocols they have to enforce it vigilantly....even when its some high school YMCA employee that has never climbed outside a day in his life....grrrrr....but necessary sometimes for training purposes....

Palm up versus palm down belaying: I learned to belay palm up, but switched to palm down after I had a rope pulled out of my hand while belaying. I didn't drop the climber, by the way, but it scared the heck out of me and I have never used belayed with my palm up since.

Mike...

You slaved me on your ORG visit and did just fine, regardless if it is Palm Up or Palm Down.

What ever works the best for you and still holds a fall, good to go in my book.

Me personally, Palm Down for both slaving and rapping.

The Chief wrote:Mike...

You slaved me on your ORG visit and did just fine, regardless if it is Palm Up or Palm Down.

What ever works the best for you and still holds a fall, good to go in my book.

Me personally, Palm Down for both slaving and rapping.

Thanks Rick! Well from all this good discussion I've taken away to at least learn and be comfortable with palm down as well as up. Before I thought of belaying as a personal thing that you learned and were done with. Now I see it as something you might continually evolve.

BTW, I do notice in all the palm up discussion the idea that the break hand is by default staying weakly in front of you. But that is a silly default position...of course you'll have rope slippage if there is a fall! My default standing position is to have the rope locked off. Of course, because my palm is _up_, this is more *back* than *down*. Why should a palm up belayer have the rope locked off much less than a palm up belayer? Granted, there is an instant that you aren't locked off while you feed (or take) some rope. And strength has nothing to do with it. A palm up belayer's break position looks a bit different, but locked off is locked off.

But it's all moot. Be a belaying omnivore, just like we are with other aspects of climbing. (single, twins, doubles? short-rope, belayed, solo, simul? munter, atc, gri-gri, hip?)


edited: (to add "(or take)")

lisae wrote:Palm up versus palm down belaying: I learned to belay palm up, but switched to palm down after I had a rope pulled out of my hand while belaying. I didn't drop the climber, by the way, but it scared the heck out of me and I have never used belayed with my palm up since.

palm down has kept me and my pals safe more than once in similar scenarios. i agree fully, and personally agree with DMT that you gotta A) have good experience behind ya and B) have your head screwed on straight while belaying...in my circle we used to be very vigilant about not getting conversation started with the belayer (which sounds as anal as anything on this thread) but usually ANY reasonable belay technique is going to suffice when everyone is doing their job.

rpc wrote:<Quarter-relevant gym story: last week a little man in the gym started bitching that I sweated too much onto a rope ("wet & DISGUSTING!!" [with a lisp]).

Were you sweating on the rope or him? Maybe you didn't realize this little man was below you.

ClimbandBike wrote:

rpc wrote:<Quarter-relevant gym story: last week a little man in the gym started bitching that I sweated too much onto a rope ("wet & DISGUSTING!!" [with a lisp]).

Were you sweating on the rope or him? Maybe you didn't realize this little man was below you.

I'd like to show this fella what really working on a crux looks like. Sheets of sweat gushing off my flabby torso and onto the rope! Spittle-flecked screaming! On the crux crimper/heel-hook, an internal explosion results in body fluids streaming from every orifice! Oh the humanity!!!

MoapaPk wrote:I'm not a climber, but...

Wait till they see how you hold the head of an ice axe. Self-belay or self-arrest hold? End of World!

Everyone knows that the self-belay hold is the only proper method.