Of ECHO CLIFFS in Malibu area.

Heed the CLOSURE!


http://www.nps.gov/samo/upload/PublicNo ... ch2010.PDF

Well, I recommend that folks stop blowing this shit off.

First it was Williamson Rock, then two weeks ago it was Christmas Tree Pass and then today, Echo Cliffs.

As it stands, if folks don't start thinking about what they do and how they behave towards the Land Mgers, whomever that may be, then these CLOSURES will indeed continue.

Don't be surprised if more of these CLOSURES start appearing at more Crags. The TOOL is just about had it and is not taking any more shit from anyone. They will find a reason to and will.... SHUT US DOWN!

I am not sure of the answer to all this as the dirty deeds are done and the local NPS LEO is not at all happy.

Get a hold of the locals down there.

I recommend PMing Guyzo and ask him. He has been very active there and has a better slant at how this can be approached.

Unfortunately, after speaking on the phone this afternoon with the local Rangers, they are not at all pleased at the attitudes that have prevailed since they tried to get a solution in place a month or so ago and were basically told to fk off. They also indicated that there were possibly more closures being considered and may in fact be placed throughout the entire Echo Cliffs Area.

Not a good situation at all especially after last weeks announcement regarding the Christmas Tree Pass closure. These are clear signs the the local and Federal Land Mgers are taking all these issues to heart and that they mean business.

HandjamMasterC wrote:What on earth could be worth climbing in Malibu? Go climb in Idylwild for Christ's sake!

Exactly!

We said this exact same thing to ourselves back in the mid 70's when we watched some folks from the GPIW do some pin and stopper testing in this exact same area.

We sat quietly and watched this group place then weight pull on em in various places. We then watched em all RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP!

Gary,

Spoke to the local LEO on the phone last week down there regarding X-Mas Tree.

Appears one of the main reasons for this entire deal is cuz there has been a very recent proliferation of bolting with power drills that are not authorized to be used there.

Comments on that claim please.


Very interesting to say the least when one does some research, contacts the local authorities and finds the rest of the story that is not publicized.

Gary Schenk wrote:Old 1/4"ers have been replaced with 3/8", sometimes with power drills, mostly hand drilled.

Some locals have put up some new routes on the Aviator Wall, their method of drilling is unkown to me.

You could hardly call it "proliferation". But power drills should not be used in a wilderness area.

Gary,

To the LM's, verbage is simply verbage.

But the Wilderness Act is the law that they must uphold. It is their responsibility. PD's are a clear violation of the law in place.

Bottom line, things are being done, once again, without contacting the LM's, communicating with them and getting their blessings on method/manner of rebolting and if placing new routes/bolts is allowed.

That appears to be the LM's beef. And rightly so IMO.

*Communicate with the local LM's, build a good solid rapport, include them in the loop, get their blessing and things will work out for all involved. This clearly was not the case here as it has been in many of the other CLOSURES throughout the United States in the past 20 or so years.

* This approach works. It hasn't failed me nor the others that I know and learned this mannerism from in the past 20 or so years, yet!

Did anyone actually go into the Lake Mead NRA Ranger Station, converse with the local LEO's and get informed on the local bolting/FAing policy from them? And communicate your intentions with them?

Or, did you all do as many do out there, ASSUME that is was OK and went ahead and did the FA's/bolting?

redneck wrote:I hope that doesn't interfere with a planned hike on the Mishe Mokwa Trail to Sandstone Peak.

It shouldn't. The trails and rest of the climbing area were open as of last Sunday.

Gary Schenk wrote:That cuts both ways. Nowhere on the Lake Mead NRA map does it indicate wilderness areas. Nowhere in the area of Christmas Tree Pass or Spirit Mountain is there an indication of any sort that you are entering a wilderness area. Not a single sign.

Gary...

According to this map which is readily accessible via the Lake Mead NPR NPS website, the area in question is clearly defined within the SPIRIT MOUNTAIN WILDERNESS as I see it.

http://www.nps.gov/lake/planyourvisit/u ... eSouth.pdf

I found it here...

http://www.nps.gov/lake/planyourvisit/m ... JUMP_64167

So your claim of not being informed as to the Wilderness Boundaries, well coming from an individual of your deep experience... I don't buy it.

Took me 10 minutes to find this map that has been in place for well over 13 years, does in fact and has clearly indicated all the designated Wilderness Areas since it's original draft and updated annually according to the phone call I just made.

What do the regional, State and designated USGS TOPO MAP indicate?

edit: Just looked at the NV Gazetteer and guess what... it is in there and the Wilderness Boundary is clearly visible. Even indicates it in Wilderness Areas Section at the front of the book..Yikes!

Gary Schenk wrote:

The Chief wrote:Did anyone actually go into the Lake Mead NRA Ranger Station, converse with the local LEO's and get informed on the local bolting/FAing policy from them? And communicate your intentions with them?

Or, did you all do as many do out there, ASSUME that is was OK and went ahead and did the FA's/bolting?

Chief, you should drive out to the pass sometime. This isn't Josh, or Alabama Hills or Owens Gorge. There are no NPS facilities, there is no ranger station. There are no rangers. It's real desert.

That is why it is and has been a Designated Wilderness Area. To keep it that way and from becoming another Josh etc!

That is the exact BEEF the LEOS and NPS Rangers have!!! It is the job that you pay them to do.

Gary Schenk wrote:From now on I will consult Rand McNally before any backcountry trips.

I have an easier and better suggestion, stop in at the regional NPS or USFS Visitor Center in which the area in question is located, and consult the LEO. $100 bucks says it'll save ya from having to buy any Rand Mac.

Gary,

You damn well know that there is major NPS Ranger/LEO Station at Katherine Landing not more than 15 miles or so from the turn off on hwy 20.

Come on dude... you know better.

Yes Gary, been there lots long before you started going there as I posted on ST on my way down to Cochise back in the early to mid 90's.

I have also spent many a days out of Katherine paddling in the mid 90's as well.

I am not buying this "I didn't know" dance Gary.

Nor am I buying the song that it's out in the middle of no where so....

Not from you. Not from someone that has been at this game as long as you have. Especially after your many knowledgeable, very in-depth and thoroughly researched posts regarding issues identical to this one, over the years here on SP.