Last Wishes and Being Left on the Mountain

Post general questions and discuss issues related to climbing.
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The Chief

 
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by The Chief » Thu May 20, 2010 4:31 am

MoapaPk wrote:
Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:Walter Starr was interred on the ledge where he died.


That was a long time ago.


Also, because Norman wasn't about to carry his dead ass out all by himself.

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Dmitry Pruss

 
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by Dmitry Pruss » Fri May 21, 2010 7:49 pm

If you happen to be dead, why make you loved ones jump through these complicated legal hoops just to insist that your body be disposed of in some contrived, ideosyncratic way? Who are you trying to impress? If you are dead, you shouldn't care one bit.

While you are still alive, the first thing you need to try to stay alive, doh. If you make contingency plans for your demise, any plans... then you gotta be thinking of what's best to your dearest ones. What might soothe and sustain them. Like if your Mom is a devout Catholic then it makes perfect sense not to plan a Pagan rite. If you don't expect your family to argue and fight over your burial plans, then there isn't even a need to spell out your wishes. They'll make it fine without you.

Death is a good timepoint to stop being egocentric, and to put, at last, your family ties ahead of your fav social network point-scoring strategies.

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robk

 
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by robk » Sat May 22, 2010 12:58 am

As someone who participates in and sometimes runs SAR operations in CA I hope this can clarify....

You will not be charged for a SAR response in almost all instances. Local emergency agencies (primarily the local Sheriff) are charged with SAR responsibility in their jurisdiction. The NPS oversees it in the Parks. USFS, BLM and others usually work incidents collaboratively with the local Sheriff. This is part of their responsibility as the jurisdictional authority in their respective areas. CO and most western states operate from this model (there are exceptions (like Grand County, UT if I remember right.....) so be informed).

If you have broken the law then you may be charged with whatever offense is appropriate (trespassing, etc.). Transport to a hospital by private ambulance (air or ground) will result in a charge. Probably a more expensive ride from Peak XYZ trailhead if you fall down the hill than if you fall down at the local Quickie Mart, but fundamentally not any different.

The military, Coast Guard or other official agencies do not charge either. The military uses these incidents as real world training opportunities that hone their skills for operations when someone is shooting at them.

As an incident commander or a ground pounder in the field, my primary concern is for my people. I will balance the risk/reward in making assignments, determining if we're going to fly or even if we're going to insert people into the field. If we've got a recovery, I will take even LESS risk and almost always limit the use of helicopters. There are instances where a recovery is deemed too risky and is not undertaken. Decisions to suspend search operations are also made with an eye towards survivability and risk.

These are all done in consultation with family and other officials, but ultimately the decisions reside with the incident commander. Are there other factors? Yes. Political pressure, media scrutiny, agency rules, competitiveness between agencies, and other factors all come into play.

To get back to the OP... Make sure your family knows your wishes. While they may not be able to red light/green light a recovery, they can request suspension of search efforts or make your wishes known to officials. We may suspend a recovery effort for some time and return to the area when the conditions are more conducive for a "training" and make a recovery or search the area in the case of a subject who was never found. For most land managers, it is not an option to leave a body (there are exceptions - particularly in places like AK).

I hope this helps.

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PellucidWombat

 
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by PellucidWombat » Sat May 22, 2010 1:03 am

robk - Finally another OP response. Very informative and exactly what I was asking about. Thanks!

Naturally SAR is going to do whatever they're going to do - I was wanting to know whether/how one could relieve the pressure to do a recovery based on an assumed desire of the individual or family for a recovery ASAP. If other factors besides these wishes enter into the decision, those are beyond the climber's ability to responsibly consider (apart from any factors that may lead to the need for a recovery).

And I don't consider the response of 'don't die' as an answer to what I was asking. That is like saying 'don't have an accident', which is something that is impossible to prevent at times, so it can be good to be prepared just in case.

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