I had planned a brilliant response for this but The Chief and FortMental took the words right out of my mouth. Well said Gentlemen. I can only wonder how long the thread would have dangled if young Jordan Romero had met a sad fate on Everest. As always, you're only a hero if your successful. With different endings to each story, these parents would be the scourge of the planet. That said, I'm glad she's been found safe, rescued and I hope she's allowed to mature into a strong, adult woman before trying again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100611/ap_ ... ilor_found

Sounds like a ship will hopefully reach her Saturday. Her mast broke which caused her to lose cell phone reception. Looks like she is doing well all considered.

Glad to hear it.

On a side not, I would be much more willing to let my kid do something with an experienced group then solo. Just saying there is a substantial difference between this woman and the kid that climb Everest, not the least of which is their ages. Not saying either is right or wrong, I'm just making the distinction.

MikeTX wrote:there are far worse records she could've attempt to break.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_yo ... th_mothers

WTF Seriously

Dingus Milktoast wrote:

Outside wrote:you're only a hero if your successful.

That is a western notion, and mostly American and mostly in the last 50-years. It certainly bears no truth to the classical definition of hero.

DMT

Couldn't agree more. Ernest Shackleton hands down, in my opionion, was a hero. Did not even come close to success with regards to his expedition. But he brought back his entire crew alive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who has not read it. It's the "Endurance Expedition".

outofstep80 wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Ernest Shackleton hands down, in my opionion, was a hero. Did not even come close to success with regards to his expedition. But he brought back his entire crew alive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who has not read it. It's the "Endurance Expedition".

I have great respect for these kids and what they're doing, and in the let them go/don't let them go debate, I'm on the side of those who say let them.

But something that's bothered me for a while is the way we call anyone who has done something brave a "hero". In my mind, "hero" is reserved for someone who's done something brave for someone else. A person who follows their dream and does something great or brave for themselves is not a hero. Shackleton was a hero. Hillary was a hero, but not for climbing Everest; he was a hero for what he did humanitarian-wise in Nepal. Many people reading this have done a lot more that's heroic than sailing solo around the world (not to diminish what this young lady is doing, by any means) or climbing Everest. I think we need to start saving the title "hero" for those who really deserve it.

Is there a double standard with respect to the search and rescue costs for people lost at sea as compared with climbers?

I don't hear anyone complaining about the cost to go and get her, as they always do when a climber "puts himself in danger" and requires SAR. Perhaps that's because she is in international waters and such things aren't even considered outside the US. Or perhaps she has insurance that covers SAR?

This is more of a rant about the people who complain about climbers than it is about her situation. Obviously her safety is the most important thing. I'm glad to hear she is alive and well.

Theses kids are only reflections of their parents desires. No more nor more less. Sorry, but these kids are far from heroes. Heroes do not accomplish self centered goals/accomplishments to better themselves.


Ya wanna see some kids that are heroes? Here...

Real Kid Heroes.

And Mark Stratford made the 4th ascent of Mt Paget, highest on South Georgia, in 1994, then years later was killed serving in Iraq. More than a few good young British and European climbers never made it out of WW2.

More recently, Mark Evison never got the chance to go south: http://explorersweb.com/polar/news.php?id=18664

Damien Gildea wrote:And Mark Stratford made the 4th ascent of Mt Paget, highest on South Georgia, in 1994, then years later was killed serving in Iraq. More than a few good young British and European climbers never made it out of WW2.

More recently, Mark Evison never got the chance to go south: http://explorersweb.com/polar/news.php?id=18664

Oh here we go with Damien's self centered philosophy rants.

Far better a man that serves and dies for his nation, regardless the cause, than any man that goes after their own selfish goals.

But folks as yourself Damien, would not even understand that concept of true greatness.

The two young gentleman you share are in fact true heroes beyond that which the likes of you, Damien, will ever know, understand or experience. Period.

edit: Additions

tonyo wrote:

outofstep80 wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Ernest Shackleton hands down, in my opionion, was a hero. Did not even come close to success with regards to his expedition. But he brought back his entire crew alive. I highly recommend the book to anyone who has not read it. It's the "Endurance Expedition".

I have great respect for these kids and what they're doing, and in the let them go/don't let them go debate, I'm on the side of those who say let them.

But something that's bothered me for a while is the way we call anyone who has done something brave a "hero". In my mind, "hero" is reserved for someone who's done something brave for someone else. A person who follows their dream and does something great or brave for themselves is not a hero. Shackleton was a hero. Hillary was a hero, but not for climbing Everest; he was a hero for what he did humanitarian-wise in Nepal. Many people reading this have done a lot more that's heroic than sailing solo around the world (not to diminish what this young lady is doing, by any means) or climbing Everest. I think we need to start saving the title "hero" for those who really deserve it.

I like this distintion. I do not considered either of these kids heros either. Both are very brave though. I definitely have a lot of responct for Sunderland. I would not be able to attempt something like that.

FortMental wrote:As for Abby's parents, they should be commended for taking the time to take their kids out sailing and engaging them with an interesting and rewarding pastime. They should be commended for instilling her with skills and independence. Solo sailing around the world may have been Abby's dream, and that's WAY cool, but sending her off young, late, and alone was clearly her parents twisting their gifts and Abby's dreams into a publicity seeking stunt.

Damn dude... Good post!

Dingus Milktoast wrote:

tonyo wrote:In my mind, "hero" is reserved for someone who's done something brave for someone else. A person who follows their dream and does something great or brave for themselves is not a hero. Shackleton was a hero. Hillary was a hero, but not for climbing Everest; he was a hero for what he did humanitarian-wise in Nepal. Many people reading this have done a lot more that's heroic than sailing solo around the world (not to diminish what this young lady is doing, by any means) or climbing Everest. I think we need to start saving the title "hero" for those who really deserve it.

This is the modern definition of hero - selfless sacrifice.

That is not the classical Greek definition. The classic Greek Hero, Hercules, did what he did for himself. Most of the Greek heros were bastards, face it. But they did great things.

Weird how time changes perspective that way.

DMT

Yeah, sometimes these things change for the best. I'm glad we have evolved past the point of having sex with young boys...at least the majority of us have.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:This is the modern definition of hero - selfless sacrifice.

That is not the classical Greek definition. The classic Greek Hero, Hercules, did what he did for himself. Most of the Greek heros were batsards, face it. But they did great things.

Weird how time changes perspective that way.

DMT

Oh but Dingus, the Greeks were not the only humans on the planet at that time.

The selfless concept of a hero that some of us speak of here, has indeed been around for a longass time.

The Tao which was written through the incredible spirit of Lao-Tzu, long before the mythology of Hercules, speaks of the true mark of a Master in this world as one that serves others and never themselves.

"Act for the peoples benefit(75)... Practicing kindness and selflessness you will naturally align yourself with the Integral Way.(36)"

The term Master is in fact equal to or greater than that of a Hero. In this case, a hero of the Spiritual and not the material form.

Free will? Hmm.... very broad and dangerous term my friend.

When I was 10, I wanted to see if the sheet parachute that I made would work if I jumped outta the 40 foot oak tree in my backyard. Hell, if I had jumped and it worked, it could have been the first time that a 10 yr old successfully BASE jumped with their home made parachute and it all worked according to my plans.

Thank God my Mom had the smarts to scream at me to get the hell outta that tree and not see if my free will would succeed.

Free Will comes with some hardcore boundaries, especially for kids that don't know better due to their lack of experiential common sense. A big term in today's world.... Common Sense.

The Chief wrote:Far better a man that serves and dies for his nation, regardless the cause, than any man that goes after their own selfish goals.

Nationalism is merely politics, Chief.