The Chief wrote:

redneck wrote:

The Chief wrote:Socialized my ass.

Then we agree it's not an important general problem.

NO!

It is a "general problem".

Now I'm confused.

It is only a general problem if the risks are being socialized. If the risks are not being socialized, it is no one's problem but the people taking their chances.

What the hell does "Socialized" have to do with this?

It is a prevailing attitude that needs to be changed back to how it was when many of us "old timers" got started.

Education, not social control is the solution.

The people aren't taking any chances. They simply call 911 instead when shit starts squirting in their face.....MOMMY, HELP ME! They refuse to even take a chance to work through the problem. They expect someone to come and solve it for them as exemplified by the recent incident with the two women.

The Chief wrote:The people aren't taking any chances. They simply call 911 instead when shit starts squirting in their face.....MOMMY, HELP ME! They refuse to even take a chance to work through the problem. They expect someone to come and solve it for them as exemplified by the recent incident with the two women.

That's exactly right, and one of the reasons they do that is we don't have a capable person who is making a decision on if an evacuation is really necessary, so all these climbing gym folks get the thrill of an evacuation on top of not having to depend on themselves. For them its win-win and the frivolous rescues only encourage it.

Still believe the public should pay for the rescue, but that being the case then the public should also be making the call on if a rescue will occur. If the recommendation is that a rescue is not necessary, and those making the call for help still want it, then they should certainly be billed for their sloth and incompetence.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:$25 to put traffic cones out.

That is hilarious! But more a function of an inept state government grasping for additional revenues than looking to create a sense of personal accountability, not that you said otherwise.

Vitaliy M wrote:Yes, but there is ALWAYS SOME risk present. For example, there is always the risk of some snow bridge between two rocks collapsing and climber breaks a leg as a result. There are however things we can control and things we know about and can't control.
I am against these certifications and permissions, I think system we have now is not perfect, but it is a lot better than going to court to prove you have enough experience with your summit shots lol. All people have the right to go out and risk their life as they wish. It is up to SAR if it is safe or not to rescue them. Majority of people are not suicidal after all.

Good post, if only SAR would add to their umbrella of decision making authority to decide if it is necessary as well... The system might still not be perfect, but would be better.

This thread makes me happier than ever that I don't give a rat's ass about climbing these trophy peaks that attract so many accidents and controversies.

Bob Sihler wrote:This thread makes me happier than ever that I don't give a rat's ass about climbing these trophy peaks that attract so many accidents and controversies.

Then you aren't a real man.

Vitaliy M wrote:

Bob Sihler wrote:This thread makes me happier than ever that I don't give a rat's ass about climbing these trophy peaks that attract so many accidents and controversies.

I wouldn't call Shasta a "trophy" peak. I think (personally) that it is one of the best CA 14ers to practice mountaineering on. You can have your steep snow, glacier travel, beautiful ridge routes, ice climbing. It does not have great technical rock climbing since it is loose volcanic rock, but it is a great mountain to explore.
For some however it is a trophy peak I guess...they just want to get to the top and tell their friends about it...Can't blame them though, for most regular people it is a huge adventure, even on AG.

The first time I climbed it (2003) I was pretty excited, so I can see how folks would consider it as a trophy objective. It's a great peak too. Then again I did it with crampons, practiced using an ice ax in Lassen before I went, turned around on my first attempt because of a solid whiteout, hadn't been in a climbing gym, and didn't get a helicopter ride down. Guess I did it the pussy way.

Vitaliy M wrote:

Bob Sihler wrote:This thread makes me happier than ever that I don't give a rat's ass about climbing these trophy peaks that attract so many accidents and controversies.

I wouldn't call Shasta a "trophy" peak. I think (personally) that it is one of the best CA 14ers to practice mountaineering on. You can have your steep snow, glacier travel, beautiful ridge routes, ice climbing. It does not have great technical rock climbing since it is loose volcanic rock, but it is a great mountain to explore.
For some however it is a trophy peak I guess...they just want to get to the top and tell their friends about it...Can't blame them though, for most regular people it is a huge adventure, even on AG.

I should explain what I mean by a trophy peak, since that can be subjective. To me, a trophy peak is one that generates endless trip reports and pictures and "advice" threads on SP. (Yawn.) It is one that is on lots of people's lists. It can be technical or a hike. Thus, for me, trophy peaks include Rainier, Hood, Shasta, Whitney, and the Grand Teton.

There is wonderful climbing of all stripes on many "lesser" and obscure peaks. Those are the peaks I love, for there is a sense of wilderness, adventure, and discovery on them.

Fortunately, I am leaving tonight to spend three weeks in the exact kinds of mountains I love.

What does this thread have to do with illegal immigrants?

MoapaPk wrote:What does this thread have to do with illegal immigrants?

We're trying to decide if an illegal immigrant who climbs Shasta and gets in trouble gets a taxpayer-funded rescue.

I think we need Judge Judy like character to determine negligence with these rescues

I was hiking out from the White Mountain area north of Tioga Pass Saturday... The snow was heavily suncupped, very soft, and generally a bit more than exhausting after a long day.

As sunset approached I couldn't help but to think that this wasn't quite right. If only I'd had some means of calling for help so I could be airlifted out I would have, and then I wouldn't have to rush to make it to the Whoa Nellie Deli before closing.

Dingus,

I think your right on target. Nice rant.

g

Ze wrote:I think we need Judge Judy like character to determine negligence with these rescues

Doesn't the ole saying go, "you'll be judged by a body of your peers"? How about those with the experience be the jury? With all rescues, SAR will defer to those on SP (with the proper qualifications) and the verdict may be deal or no deal.