Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?

benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?

The Kong Duck and the newly announced Wild Country Ropeman 3 both say that they can ascend webbing.

It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.

bcknfrth wrote:Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?

http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/Qualifying_a_Rescue_Rope.pdf

brenta wrote:

bcknfrth wrote:Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?

http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/Qualifying_a_Rescue_Rope.pdf

Well there you have it. Webbing doesn't hold up to abrasion.

bcknfrth wrote:

nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.

Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?

What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.

OK folks. Young, inexperienced climber asking for some information when it's clear he probably needs some instruction and/or proper equipment. Let's not enable someone on what could be an ill-advised quest.

Autoxfil wrote:

bcknfrth wrote:

nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.

Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?

What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.

The webbing is probably lying flat for the abrasion test as well, exposing a lot more of the load-bearing fibers.

I have some 9/16" webbing slings that date back to the 80's, and they don't seem abraded at all. It's all in the use.

I think the toothed-gear (ascender) approach may do relatively little abrasion on webbing. They have been using webbing in some come-alongs, and in strap clamps, for some time, using a toothed-gear to hold the place. I think some rescue folks like to put ascenders on webbing.

That said, webbing sucks for traditional ascent via prussik or klemheist. Initially it is too slippery, then when it cinches up, you can actually melt the outside with the heat produced. I've seen it cut nearly through when draped over a "sharp" surface (in this case the fire-hardened edge of a bristlecone log).

Continuing an earlier suggestion:
"The Ropeman Mk3 has new shape of cam and new forged side plates make it easy to place on ropes between 7.7 and 11mm and can be used with both nylon slings and ropes. It's use on tape means that it's use on belays is more adaptable, allowing adjustment on belay slings quick and safe. This will be a big hit with guides and those involved in rescue. "

It strikes me that they are not using the ascender for ascending on webbing, but as part of the belay system, as a rope clamp.

MoapaPk wrote:

Autoxfil wrote:

bcknfrth wrote:

nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.

Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?

What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.

The webbing is probably lying flat for the abrasion test as well, exposing a lot more of the load-bearing fibers.

I have some 9/16" webbing slings that date back to the 80's, and they don't seem abraded at all. It's all in the use.

I think the toothed-gear (ascender) approach may do relatively little abrasion on webbing. They have been using webbing in some come-alongs, and in strap clamps, for some time, using a toothed-gear to hold the place. I think some rescue folks like to put ascenders on webbing.

That said, webbing sucks for traditional ascent via prussik or klemheist. Initially it is too slippery, then when it cinches up, you can actually melt the outside with the heat produced. I've seen it cut nearly through when draped over a "sharp" surface (in this case the fire-hardened edge of a bristlecone log).

Continuing an earlier suggestion:
"The Ropeman Mk3 has new shape of cam and new forged side plates make it easy to place on ropes between 7.7 and 11mm and can be used with both nylon slings and ropes. It's use on tape means that it's use on belays is more adaptable, allowing adjustment on belay slings quick and safe. This will be a big hit with guides and those involved in rescue. "

It strikes me that they are not using the ascender for ascending on webbing, but as part of the belay system, as a rope clamp.

That is because there is normally no reason to be ascending webbing, at least none that I have ever heard of. Maybe the original poster can elucidate the issue.

benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?

Why do you ask? That might help get you a direct, suitable answer.

Mountain Impulse wrote:

benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?

Why do you ask? That might help get you a direct, suitable answer.

Thanks man. I ask cause after a bungee jump I want to be able to quickly accend up something light. A lot of jumping is kind of fast and undercover... It's hard to haul around a rope for that kind of thing.

fatdad wrote:OK folks. Young, inexperienced climber asking for some information when it's clear he probably needs some instruction and/or proper equipment. Let's not enable someone on what could be an ill-advised quest.

Dude that's a tool bag thing to say, ya I'm young but don't assume I'm clueless and inexperienced. Look at my post above and that should let u know where I'm going with this.

The speed and safety gained from a rope are very much worth the weight.

Drop down to an 8 or 9mm static line to save weight and bulk. Just keep it well away from sharp edges and buy ascenders that grip it well.

Autoxfil wrote:The speed and safety gained from a rope are very much worth the weight.

Drop down to an 8 or 9mm static line to save weight and bulk. Just keep it well away from sharp edges and buy ascenders that grip it well.

I agree. Benjy, I take it after a bunjee jump the ascent distance is a few stories no? My gut tells me I wouldn't want to do that on webbing.

I second that. Although I would ascend webbing in an emergency situation it should not be a frequent procedure. It may also depend a little bit on how long a piece you are ascending. Note that a single long piece of webbing gets to be pretty dynamic and if you have a 100 ft piece there could be a lot of bouncing while ascending which can really increase the shock load. If there's a nick or flaw in the webbing it's not hard to envision a catastrophic failure. I would feel a whole lot better with at least an 8mm static rope. Also I would be very worried about ascenders slipping on the webbing.

You mentioned bungee so I assume you're in a hanging position. I assume that also means you're still tied into the bungee? If so then at least you have a dynamic backup if the webbing were to fail. That might be the only thing that makes it even worth considering. Still however I think you'd have a lot less to worry about with a rope.