I recognize the futility in arguing with you, but I feel compelled to let others know that your remarks are a bit left of left field.

Granted that you do not provide every last detail for novices, but why then write a guidebook without any good descript?

"Good" is subjective. From your view (which is apparently based on a "quick glance" at a single route in the book), the beta is not detailed enough to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Many others have commented to me that they thought the beta was sufficient enough to assist one in getting the job done -- which was the goal in publishing the information.

Were you to hypothetically acquire a copy of the book, I'd strongly urge you to stick with the class 1 and easier class 2 routes. Zion has some great trails.

The page for NGA does not even say left or right once you get to the rock ridge. I might take a fatal fall choosing the wrong way, maybe both ways go or one or not at all. Or get terribly stuck trying to back down.

Personal responsibility, Peter. Absent special circumstances, you should never commit yourself to something you don't have the ability to get out of. If a route choice looks too rich for your blood, back off.

That free website that the NPS gave me gives better info, if not too complete or accurate as well, but it's free.

Awesome. I hope it works out great for you.

cp0915 wrote:

1000Pks wrote: But I was alone and had only a very light pack (with no rope, etc.).

Are we talking about the same mountain? What were the hardest sections of the route that you took? Because the way we went up, there were at least two sections of extremely exposed 5th class that we had to rope up on just so we don't die. One of them had like 1,000 ft. of exposure. I just can't see how you could downclimb some of those parts safely, with how sketchy the rock is. I'm very interested in how you soloed this sucker.

So, what's the snow level on Inyo and Keynot?

1000Pks wrote:Myself, with as intricate a route as the DPS describes, I'll be taking lots of photos and posting the way I took on my website. With the usual disclaimers, of course. I do similar with Angels Landing, you can easily contact me for a full slideshow and running personal narrative for each and every step, or so to speak.

A step-by-step illustrated personal narrative to describe how to follow class-1 trail and class-2 with handrail chains? Now I think we understand where you're coming from regarding your problems with cp's book.

No snow left on the west side that I could see yesterday from Lone Pine and the Alabama Hills. Could be hidden in the shadows on the east, but looks fairly dry.

Darija wrote:

cp0915 wrote:

1000Pks wrote: But I was alone and had only a very light pack (with no rope, etc.).

Are we talking about the same mountain? What were the hardest sections of the route that you took? Because the way we went up, there were at least two sections of extremely exposed 5th class that we had to rope up on just so we don't die. One of them had like 1,000 ft. of exposure. I just can't see how you could downclimb some of those parts safely, with how sketchy the rock is. I'm very interested in how you soloed this sucker.

How many Zion peaks have you stood on the summit of? Compare your novice (albeit not necessarily unwarranted) impression that there's a 30% chance of dying there with my background of 125 different peaks and 30 different canyons in the park, and reflect on the significant difference in perspectives and experience levels (for the park). In other words, I'm very used to climbing conditions in Zion. What freaks you out, does not necessarily freak me out. Not to say I haven't been scared there, of course. I have ~ about 30% of the time.

1000Pks wrote:That cp refuses to give away much knowledge and his details on Zion, so be it for him.

Before mine, a book that gave beta on bagging Zion peaks never existed. Considering the park's popularity, I think that's a testiment to its mystery and unsolvability. You have no idea the extent of my pioneering efforts there.

Based on feedback I've received, the book's beta has gotten people up The Watchman, Johnson Mountain, Mount Kinesava, Lady Mountain, Mount Spry, Twin Brothers, Tabernacle Dome, Jobs Head, Red Butte, Pine Valley Peak, Mountain of the Sun, Aires Butte, South Guardian Angel, North Guardian Angel, Horse Ranch Mountain, and who knows what else. That a "quick glance" told you that the NGA beta is inadequate just doesn't hold much water with me, Pete. Neither does it surprise me.

30% mortality rate?

wtf?

mrchad9 wrote:30% mortality rate?

wtf?

Yes, in order to sustain the park's California condor population. They were brought back from the verge of extinction, but it comes with a price.

MooseTracks wrote:No snow left on the west side that I could see yesterday from Lone Pine and the Alabama Hills. Could be hidden in the shadows on the east, but looks fairly dry.

Thanks Laura!

KathyW wrote:So, what's the snow level on Inyo and Keynot?

SP threads have a way of doing this, don't they?!

On Sunday, the snow in the Spring Mountains had receded up to the 10,000' level. I think I'll leave my quilted Black Ice parka behind!

Darija wrote:

cp0915 wrote:

1000Pks wrote: But I was alone and had only a very light pack (with no rope, etc.).

Are we talking about the same mountain? What were the hardest sections of the route that you took? Because the way we went up, there were at least two sections of extremely exposed 5th class that we had to rope up on just so we don't die. One of them had like 1,000 ft. of exposure. I just can't see how you could downclimb some of those parts safely, with how sketchy the rock is. I'm very interested in how you soloed this sucker.

Gesu Cristo folks, In didn't mean this thread to spin off so bizarrely.

As I've said, I did the Bridge Zion route (with a fellow who insisted on slowing down for safety) within CP's recommended time. And the class 4 rating came initially from Branch Whitney, who is the fellow who put up the cairns; he also did the route without any protection. Bridge Zion isn't as steep as some creepy routes we do in Red Rock NV, but the crappy nature of the sandstone requires that you up the grade a notch. We just get used to the sandstone and deal with it; we get used to dropping handlines, because they are a lot faster than true roped belays.

I have absolutely no doubt that CP did what he said (solo Bridge Zion in 6 hrs or less); I've been with him on tougher Zion trips, where we averaged 3 mph for the first 3-4 trailless miles, even though we were jumping streams and scurrying up walls. CP has an uncanny knack for picking the best routes on the crappy sandstone. He can move over rough terrain like no one I've seen; ask Rick K about his descent speed.

Darija, I truly am impressed with some of your trips, and I hope there are many more. Don't forgo the peaks of Zion; just be cautious. But Zion is creepy if you are used to Sierra Granite; the canyons are actually unnaturally solid compared to the peaks -- that's why they are canyons, as the loose stuff has eroded away. We desert sandstone rats have gotten a bit used to this stuff on sandstone peaks-- probably too much for our own good. I have spent my time in an emergency room for getting a little too bold, and have used up at least 5 of my 9 lives.


PS-- this is the route that CP and I took (on separate occasions):
http://hwstock.org/bz/
Gesu Cristo, let's back off a little. Group hug!

KathyW wrote:

MooseTracks wrote:No snow left on the west side that I could see yesterday from Lone Pine and the Alabama Hills. Could be hidden in the shadows on the east, but looks fairly dry.

Thanks Laura!

Agree! Thanks! Please add some informational posts to this thread... best place to get Greek food in Lone Pine, scrabble arrangements for "Keynot Peak," anything!

MoapaPk wrote:

KathyW wrote:

MooseTracks wrote:No snow left on the west side that I could see yesterday from Lone Pine and the Alabama Hills. Could be hidden in the shadows on the east, but looks fairly dry.

Thanks Laura!

Agree! Thanks! Please add some informational posts to this thread... best place to get Greek food in Lone Pine, scrabble arrangements for "Keynot Peak," anything!

Not Greek, but Merry-Go-Round (between Seasons and the hostel) is cooking up what I think is the best Chinese food in the OV. I know, weird, huh?

Snow line looks to be be above 12.5-13K in the Whites as well, mostly to the north. Some patches left on Piute and Sheep, Barcroft looking bare. Good coverage on the top of White but I might be able to go find my crampons on the West Ridge if I wanted to slog up that scralus again.

Anything else?

Thanks MooseTracks! I'm stuck on:
Taken Pokey
Kapok Teeny
Oak Kept Yen
Oak Tyke Pen
(...)
;^)

Ok, I'll be honest. The one thing that I am mostly afraid of and I keep getting increasingly paranoid with is.......mountain lion dangers. I have heard a few freak stories about them attacking and the stories are not pretty. I keep thinking that roaming along the inyo mountains (especially if done solo) through vast amounts of territory, I become a prime target to be stalked by one of those things and who knows what it will do when they start following or when they know of your presence. I know of all the conventional wisdom (they are usually afraid of people, attacks are so rare, if confronted by one-make noise and act big and menacing, yadda yadda)

I want some input from people so I can better realistically assess the dangers. Do the Inyo mountains have mountain lions (a lot, few?) and what is the best way to prepare and safeguard yourself from those things? Such as-carrying trekking poles provides some form of weapon. Headlights might scare them? Look behind your back frequently. What are other suggestions. I always wanted to get a gun to protect myself (from various things, like psychos and stupid people), but haven't yet.