Cleaning Water Bottles

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welle

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by welle » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:22 pm

MoapaPk wrote:
welle wrote:It eventually makes it into the ocean - where do you think the chlorine goes? While 1000Pks gripe with Sierra Club turned into a running joke here on SP, I agree with him on the Clorox issue, SC's endorsement of Clorox was plain wrong.


There is actually quite a bit of chlorine in the ocean; sea water is almost 2% chlorine. The question is whether oxidized chlorine makes it to the oceans, and in general, it doesn't. Also true, there isn't a one-to-one correspondence between the elemental content of what we dump in sewers, and what enters natural waters. There is a fair concern that some chlorinated hydrocarbons remain in sewage sludge, but that's pretty far from his concern.

Do you know how most municipalities treat drinking water and waste water? Read Day Hiker's comments above.


Not New York City, the only time they dump massive amounts of chlorine is after extensive rain. In any case, my comment was not about the concern on the chlorine in water, but the fact that anything we flush down our sewage systems eventually ends up either in the ground, air, water and eventually into the oceans. It's a closed system, we need to be mindful of it and strive to use less of soap, detergent or bleach, and think twice before flushing those expired meds into the toilets.

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by goldenhopper » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:28 pm

I use the disposable Smart Water or large mouth Aquafina 1 liter bottles and toss when done... Bam! Now that's easy!

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by MoapaPk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:15 pm

welle wrote: but the fact that anything we flush down our sewage systems eventually ends up either in the ground, air, water and eventually into the oceans. It's a closed system, we need to be mindful of it and strive to use less of soap, detergent or bleach, and think twice before flushing those expired meds into the toilets.


Expired meds -- and even urine from people taking meds -- are certainly persistent tracers. But the idea that everything dumped in the sewers makes it to the oceans or rivers is not correct. There is a lot of biodegradation of organics, and degradation of many inorganic chemicals, especially oxidants. Sorption of metals on soils is pretty extreme.

I think you are a little naive about the treatment of waste water in NYC:

"To disinfect and kill harmful organisms, the wastewater
spends a minimum of 15-20 minutes in chlorine-contact
tanks mixing with sodium hypochlorite, the same chemical
found in common household bleach. The treated wastewater,
or effluent, is then released into local waterways.
Disinfection is an essential step because it protects the
health of people who use local beaches and enjoy other
recreational activities on or near the water."


http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wwsystem.pdf

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by MoapaPk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:19 pm

NancyHands wrote:I use the disposable Smart Water or large mouth Aquafina 1 liter bottles and toss when done... Bam! Now that's easy!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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welle

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by welle » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:58 pm

I meant drinking water, not waste water. It's fair that a lot of stuff gets degraded in nature, but there is a limit. Didn't BP dump bunch of chemical dispersants into the Gulf to break oil into small particles that could be absorbed by bacteria? I'm sure the amount of oil they spilled and the amount of chemicals they dumped pretty much killed or overwhelmed the bacteria that was supposed to absorb the oil...

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by MoapaPk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:40 pm

welle wrote:I meant drinking water, not waste water.

Then I don't see the relevance of your original comment. Read the comment about how they treat NYC waste water (which comes through the sewers) and what they do with it, and decide if the clorox you might use to clean a water bottle will make any significant difference. What do you think eventually happens to the water you drink, and the water you use to shower, flush toilets, or wash clothes?

It's fair that a lot of stuff gets degraded in nature, but there is a limit. Didn't BP dump bunch of chemical dispersants into the Gulf to break oil into small particles that could be absorbed by bacteria? I'm sure the amount of oil they spilled and the amount of chemicals they dumped pretty much killed or overwhelmed the bacteria that was supposed to absorb the oil...


There are limits, and the purpose of water management authorities is to make sure they are not exceeded. I'm pretty sure that you do not realize the amount of chemical analysis that goes into checking the process.

The BP example is a red herring; that wasn't a gradual or intentional release, nor in any way typical of the sewer systems. We are supposed to recycle our used motor oil nowadays, and there are penalties for those are found to be exceeding the limits. The EPA will even force people to remediate old buried oil tanks on their properties. Around here, an individual is limited to recycling about 2 gallons oil a month, and that oil gets processed, it doesn't go in the sewers. Few even come close to that limit. Yet by far the biggest source of hydrocarbons in sewers is runoff from roads. Perhaps that is a relevance of the BP example; we have lots of tight regulations on thoughtful use of small amounts, and few regulations for the big problems.

My main concern is that people will take strong stands on trivial transgressions, and pass lots of feel-good laws, while starving the environmental checks that really make a difference. If you want to make a difference for hypochlorite, get involved with the harbor and water authorities and ask about the regulations for cleaning ballast tanks and treatment of sewage. Multiply the numbers out, and you will quickly see that the occasional cleaning of water bottles --with a small amount of clorox-- is massively trivial.

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Last edited by MoapaPk on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by mrchad9 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:55 pm

welle wrote:I'm sure the amount of oil they spilled and the amount of chemicals they dumped pretty much killed or overwhelmed the bacteria that was supposed to absorb the oil...

I'm not sure about that. Why are you?

One only needs to look at the surface of the Gulf today to see the impact was not as great as anticipated given the massive quantity spilled.

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by chugach mtn boy » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:36 pm

mrchad9 wrote:One only needs to look at the surface of the Gulf today to see the impact was not as great as anticipated given the massive quantity spilled.

It is an ecosystem that is adapted to dealing with oil, because of all the natural seeps in the Gulf. So not an especially sensitive environment.

This was an environmental issue--and not the first one--where there ended up being kind of an unspoken conspiracy to make it sound worse than it was. The right wanted it to sound bad to reflect badly on Obama, and the left wanted it to sound bad because it fits the narrative of corporate despoilation and helps raise funds for environmental groups. And the press wanted it to sound bad because drama sells.

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welle

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by welle » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:13 pm

MoapaPk wrote:
Do you know how most municipalities treat drinking water and waste water? Read Day Hiker's comments above.


Moapa, it was a reply directly to your question above - I just saw "drinking" before waste and went with it...

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MoapaPk

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by MoapaPk » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:35 pm

OK! Group hug!

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Big Benn

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by Big Benn » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:43 pm

I've used Milton, a steriliser used for cleaning out babies feeding bottles. Works very well.
Nearly seven years into writing my book on Short-eared Owls and great progress being made. Now starting to get proof prints of the first chapters.

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by Carbo » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I throw the nalgene in the dishwasher. If it can sterilize a baby bottle it can keep a nalgene clean enough for me too

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by lcarreau » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:05 am

But... it would be best not to throw the BABY out with the bathwater.

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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by dskoon » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:42 pm

Carbo wrote:I throw the nalgene in the dishwasher. If it can sterilize a baby bottle it can keep a nalgene clean enough for me too


Careful about that(unless you already know), as the older bpa nalgenes were/are heat sensitive, so you don't want to stick them too close to the heater element in the dishwasher, or leaching in the plastic, may occur. Hence the fears that led to them doing away with bpa bottles. . .

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Day Hiker

 
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Re: Cleaning Water Bottles

by Day Hiker » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:40 pm

dskoon wrote:
Carbo wrote:I throw the nalgene in the dishwasher. If it can sterilize a baby bottle it can keep a nalgene clean enough for me too


Careful about that(unless you already know), as the older bpa nalgenes were/are heat sensitive, so you don't want to stick them too close to the heater element in the dishwasher, or leaching in the plastic, may occur. Hence the fears that led to them doing away with bpa bottles. . .


The leaching occurs while the plastic is hot. Once it cools, the plastic is as safe as it was before heating. So the rule is don't use the container for any hot beverages, i.e., don't let the plastic get hot while your beverage is in it.

In the study, new and old bottles filled with room-temperature water released the same amount of BPA. When scientists exposed new and used bottles to boiling water, however, they released BPA up to 55 times more rapidly than before heating.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-01-29-plastic-chemical_N.htm

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