mrchad9 wrote:Well this is the second post 1000pks has put up recently that I agree with completely from beginning to end.

And I did not even catch that there was no adult present. Only another minor. Yes. Such an activity should be illegal without an adult present, or give them adult time. There's no excuse for what happened. You either know what you are shooting at, or it's murder.

Correction: "You either know what you are shooting at, or it's manslaughter.

Tanngrisnir3 wrote:

mrchad9 wrote:Well this is the second post 1000pks has put up recently that I agree with completely from beginning to end.

And I did not even catch that there was no adult present. Only another minor. Yes. Such an activity should be illegal without an adult present, or give them adult time. There's no excuse for what happened. You either know what you are shooting at, or it's murder.

Correction: "You either know what you are shooting at, or it's manslaughter.

I was intending to communicate what I thought it should be, not was the laws on the books say today. I likely was not clear about that.

The past 24 hours, no 4 days, has been... well... a lot!

Yeah! I feel the disturbance too! And I'm anxiously awaiting the next story.

Mountainjeff wrote:

mrchad9 wrote:You either know what you are shooting at, or it's murder.

That could not be further from the truth. There is a huge difference between an accidental killing and an intentional murder. I am in no way saying that the kid should have not been held responsible, but he is different than a murderer. He made a horrible mistake, but should be given the chance to grow up and become a quality member of society (which cannot happen while sitting in jail).

On the subject of what age should be allowed to hunt, I don't think anyone under the age of 18 should be able to hunt unsupervised (and the supervisor should have several years of hunting experience). The state government did not do a sufficient job making laws to fix this. Frankly, I think peoples' anger should be aimed at the government. The kid was never convicted of breaking hunting hunting regulations. Since the regulations failed, they need to change. That is what will save lives, not locking some 14 year old up.

If you shoot a gun into a house that may or may not be occupied, you run the risk of killing someone. If you're willing to assume the risk, you're still a murderer. The act may not have been premeditated, but you're certainly reckless as to the possibility that you're going to kill someone.

I may get flak on this (particularly as I'm a parent), but if you hunt, let your minor child hunt, but don't lock up the gun when you're not around, you share the blame and should do some time as well. With great power comes great responsibility. I see a lot of arguments about how sacrosanct the 2nd Amendment is, but few people willing to take it on the chin when those same firearms land them in trouble.

Just thought I'd comment on a couple of points.

Orange clothing - there are different requirements for hunter dress depending on where you live. In Manitoba, you must wear an orange hat or toque (or "beanie" for my US friends....) and a minimum amount of torso area must be covered in orange. Most people wear a vest to satisfy the second requirement. Orange hunting clothing makes sense, but if you're like me and don't wish to spend money on dedicated hunting clothes (I actually use old insulated coveralls from the farm) it's easier to drop a few dollars on a vest.

Hunting age/supervision - Not all jurisdictions are the same (again). A 14 yr old can't hunt unsupervised in Manitoba (and I doubt that they can in any Canadian province though I wouldn't be surprised if that differed in the territories).

Fort Mental - you raise an interesting point about those that hunt vs. those that spend time in the woods. Most of the people I interact/socialize with during deer season are well connected to the land they hunt on because they own the land (i.e. farmers, my father in-law is a cattle farmer) while others do spend time scouting. That said, there are a number of city cowboys that never get out until hunting begins. These same people rarely practice with their firearms (another issue in my book).

BTW - I am happy to say that I don't personally know any hunters that drink when they hunt.

Fury wrote:Just thought I'd comment on a couple of points.

Orange clothing - there are different requirements for hunter dress depending on where you live. In Manitoba, you must wear an orange hat or toque (or "beanie" for my US friends....) and a minimum amount of torso area must be covered in orange. Most people wear a vest to satisfy the second requirement. Orange hunting clothing makes sense, but if you're like me and don't wish to spend money on dedicated hunting clothes (I actually use old insulated coveralls from the farm) it's easier to drop a few dollars on a vest.

Hunting age/supervision - Not all jurisdictions are the same (again). A 14 yr old can't hunt unsupervised in Manitoba (and I doubt that they can in any Canadian province though I wouldn't be surprised if that differed in the territories).

Fort Mental - you raise an interesting point about those that hunt vs. those that spend time in the woods. Most of the people I interact/socialize with during deer season are well connected to the land they hunt on because they own the land (i.e. farmers, my father in-law is a cattle farmer) while others do spend time scouting. That said, there are a number of city cowboys that never get out until hunting begins. These same people rarely practice with their firearms (another issue in my book).

BTW - I am happy to say that I don't personally know any hunters that drink when they hunt.

I've been hiking my whole life, and hunting for most of it, and I can safely say that the only serious (and predictably constant) drinkers during hunting (that I've ever met, in any case) are duck hunters. Stalking-type hunting that I do, for pig/turkey/deer, doesn't lend itself at all to flailing about, bad balance, being loud, etc....

That said, I don't recall ever actually liking any of the duck hunters I've ever met, for that matter. Political, conspicuous consumption types, already loud and obnoxious. I've met too many who are/were car dealers.

There's a lot more wildlife now than when I was young. Hunting must be a dying sport.



Thank you Larry.

The following user would like to unthank John Duffield for this post
mrchad9

Where I live the number of hunters is decreasing. I think it's caused by a increasingly urban population.

Good pun by the way.

mrchad9 wrote:Well this is the second post 1000pks has put up recently that I agree with completely from beginning to end.

And I did not even catch that there was no adult present. Only another minor. Yes. Such an activity should be illegal without an adult present, or give them adult time. There's no excuse for what happened. You either know what you are shooting at, or it's murder.

It's not murder. It's not premeditated nor is there a motive. It's an accident, a very tragic and traumatic accident, but still an accident.

1000 pks what the he!!?

Edit: +1 Fury, the slob and/or unsafe hunters around here are those that aren't from around here. Michigan has got different bear seasons, I hate to fuel the stereotype, but the hunters I like to see the least are the bear hunters from out of the area and their hounds. I do enjoy hunting grouse, it's even more fun with a good dog. I also hunt whitetail deer, however filling my tag is not a priority it's just being out there. The same reason I hike, backpack to get out of doors and enjoy what it has to offer.

1000Pks wrote:

1000 pks what the he!!?

A person was killed, shot by a weapon meant to kill. Maybe legally an accident but nonetheless, in the grand scheme of things, I'd say some negligence. Is it ever worth bagging a bear and firing at what you see as a bear, in actuality not?

On seeing it, many will say war is murder. Just my feeling about what then may happen to any of us!

Not that. It seems you are out of sorts so to speak. Gang bangers, enviros, that talk as it pertains to hunters/hunting isn't making sense to me.

bluffview wrote:

mrchad9 wrote:Well this is the second post 1000pks has put up recently that I agree with completely from beginning to end.

And I did not even catch that there was no adult present. Only another minor. Yes. Such an activity should be illegal without an adult present, or give them adult time. There's no excuse for what happened. You either know what you are shooting at, or it's murder.

It's not murder. It's not premeditated nor is there a motive. It's an accident, a very tragic and traumatic accident, but still an accident.

We already addressed that. Tanngrisnir3 had the correct response. Equating it to an accident is not correct. You might as well just say a truck driver who goes and gets shitfaced and slams into a schoolbus at 80 mph killing everyone (but himself) in a massive ball of flames is just an accident.

Around here there are alot of people who live for beer, four wheelers and hunting so now and again you get an unpleasant mix. One guy got shot while driving in his truck because a hunter (who if I remember had a few to many) thought his roof rack was a pair of antlers. I can just imagine what was going through his mind.. Ewwwe that's the biggest darn deer I ever saw. Wait til I show the boys this un. *hiccup*" Also apparently a kid almost got shot because she was wearing white mittens and someone thought it was the tail of a deer. It's all about wearing orange here, at least a hat or something. I don't know what you can do about your car...mine has a roof rack and it's white! Lethal combination...I better not drive near the woods for awhile.