After thrashing my 45L CiloGear WorkSack on a single overnight climbing trip I sold it. I would not recommend that pack for any sort of alpine rock use.

If you're willing to go used as of earlier this week someone has a circa 2003 65L Arc'teyx Khamsin at Mammoth Gear Exchange in Bishop ($125 I think). I have the 38L model and it's been the best climbing pack I've ever owned.

Shane -

A couple of years ago I got a decent Christmas bonus at work and decided to spring for a Dyneema 45L Worksack (V2, I believe). I had also been looking at the Andinista. Graham was upfront with me about difficulties in getting adequate supplies of the material, but since I didn't have any trips planned (and my old pack was 10 years old, bought in Eastern Europe and so heavy that it might as well have been made of lead) I decided to go for it. The pack took several (10?) months to arrive. But when it did, I got a 20L pack in return for my patience. I think that Cilogear's turnaround time has become much better since, but this still seems somewhat indicative of the company: when everything is working well they provide great, personalized customer service, but they still haven't ironed out all the kinks to be great reliably.

As for the pack itself--I'm perfectly content with it. It is everything that it claims to be: light, dependable and adaptable. I have used it for everything from local cragging to week-long+ alpine adventures in the middle of nowhere. The strap system means that it can be shrunk or expanded to fit your needs (like the Andinista), but the use of a removable stay gives you the option to hump larger, heavier loads than (I think) would be feasible with the Andinista. I've carried 70+ pounds in the 45L. I can't say it was a pleasant experience; I can't imagine circumstances under which it would be. But the pack was not only able to accommodate a lot of gear (the 45L rating must be uber-conservative, it seems much bigger), including strapping it all over the outside, but to handle the weight without falling apart or putting it all on my shoulders. I don't know what to say about ExcitableBoy's friend's experience, but I'm confident in the workmanship and construction of my pack. After 3+ years, it's dirty as all hell (white is not a good color for a pack), but wholly intact save for a small hole on the bottom of the pack and slight tear in the spindrift collar. Note I said "perfectly content" versus "love/am enthralled by/get an orgasm just thinking of" my pack. The reason for that is simply that I haven't used too many other packs and can make no solid claim for this being the *best* pack out there. But it has fully met all my expectations and served my needs.

That being said here are some small gripes: the stay does not come pre-formed, this lets you fit it to your back, which might be a plus, but I found the process for doing this to be very hard. Still not sure I'm happy with it, with heavy loads the bottom of the stay has a tendency to rub my tailbone.; The pack (though this is perhaps just the Dyneema?) does not really hold a shape. This means you have to pack and adjust the straps carefully to get it to carry/sit well. If you take the effort you get good results, but you can't simply toss your shit in and go. I've heard it referred to as a "thinking man's" pack somewhere. That seems right.; the padding of the shoulder straps has a tendency to get twisted. Perhaps this has been fixed in newer versions.

Not sure if that helps.

Over the years I've had a couple of Wild Things Ice Sacs that I've been very happy with. I've used them for everything from alpine climbs and frozen waterfalls in the Sierra, trekking in Nepal, even lugging heavy loads to and from the base of El Cap. Last summer I used it for a light 5 day trip over Shepherd's Pass, and it was great for that too.

The only caveat is that the last one I bought was a good 15 yrs. ago, maybe even a little longer, and it's my understanding the company's focus has changed a little. If you buy a Wild Things, I think the Andanista is probably too big for what you're looking for. My pack is 4000 c.i. (before liters became the norm-slightly larger than 60 L, which is about 3700 c.i) and it feels big for just a day trip, so the Andanista will likely feel even more so. That is a good size though for 2-3 day trips since it forces you to trim down your load.

Edit: also look at Cold Cold World. Good technical climbing packs.

fatdad wrote:Over the years I've had a couple of Wild Things Ice Sacs that I've been very happy with. I've used them for everything from alpine climbs and frozen waterfalls in the Sierra, trekking in Nepal, even lugging heavy loads to and from the base of El Cap. Last summer I used it for a light 5 day trip over Shepherd's Pass, and it was great for that too.

The only caveat is that the last one I bought was a good 15 yrs. ago, maybe even a little longer, and it's my understanding the company's focus has changed a little. If you buy a Wild Things, I think the Andanista is probably too big for what you're looking for. My pack is 4000 c.i. (before liters became the norm-slightly larger than 60 L, which is about 3700 c.i) and it feels big for just a day trip, so the Andanista will likely feel even more so. That is a good size though for 2-3 day trips since it forces you to trim down your load.

Edit: also look at Cold Cold World. Good technical climbing packs.

Thank God, litres are becoming the norm, cubic inches confuses the hell out of me.

radson wrote:
Thank God, litres are becoming the norm, cubic inches confuses the hell out of me.

Thank God, we still know how to spell right!

blazin wrote:

radson wrote:
Thank God, litres are becoming the norm, cubic inches confuses the hell out of me.

Thank God, we still know how to spell right!

I was wondering if some heathen spelling Yank would pull me up on that

Chaos...awesome build quality and great company to deal with. Talk to Randy and tweak the features to your liking for little or no additional $$.

I have used two Cilogear 45 litre Worksacks quite a bit. They fit me very well, which is one of the most important things, so I like them, and they are light. I would say their 45 litres in a Large size is more like 55 litres or just over, which might be worth taking into account, and they do indeed cinch down quite well to probably 25 litres or so.

However, in terms of expansion above 45/50 litres, you're talking about filling the throat and extending the lid, and I don't think this is a great thing to do with these packs. The throat material is (deliberately) pretty thin, so won't take a lot of abuse, but more importantly the packs (mine, at least) don't carry so well with a load like this. To be fair, most packs that you can fill the throat and extend the lid do not carry well that way, because they're not really designed to. The basic mechanics are designed around the pack being just full and the lid in the 'normal' full position. If the load in the throat is at all heavy, the pack will be too top heavy and carry like a bitch. I've had a light load up top like this - just down gear in Antarctica - and it was OK, but a year or so ago in Nepal I had a heavier load and the lid extended up, not all the way, and it was not fun. I really should have had a bigger pack, and given how well the Cilogear packs cinch down, it makes it more viable to go the 60 litres, if you think you will have big loads.

I haven't used the Andinista, but I never liked the shape, design, zippers or velcro. Other than that they're probably great.

Been using one of these for the past year and half (over 50 BC, Guided and Local Ice/Alpine trips). Have recommended it to several clients, they in turn got one and they as well as I have nothing but outstanding raving reviews for it. The price was the first thing that caught all our eyes. Truly a well designed, super high quality manufactured light GP pack and great for 2-4 day light fast Alpine Assaults at an incredibly reasonable price.

I carry and have climbed with an avg of 40-50lbs in it and I swear that this thing rides like no other pack that I have used in the past 40 plus years. Many a time I have to remind myself that I have a pack on. Super comfortable and a perfect fit.

I highly recommend this pack to any hardcore and aspiring alpinist alike.



Vaude Expedition Rock 55 + 10 Backpack
$128.50


The ultimate expedition climbing backpack with easy access crampon attachment and fast zip access to the main compartment.

weight: 1940 g
volume: 55-65L (extended)
measure: 62,00 x 30,00 x 20,00 cm

420 D small Diamond Ripstop, 600 D Polyester PU coated, 500 D Cordura Polyamid PU coated

# separate crampon pouch attachment on the front
# access to the main compartment also via zip
# rope holder under the lid
# zip lid compartment
# variable lid height
# removable lid
# welded, padded back
# suspension system with innovative F.L.A.S.H. NT adjustment
# attachment point for ice equipment
# removable hip belt
# e-link system: backpack can be attached to Edelrid climbing harnesses
# map compartment
# side compression straps
# sternum strap with whistle
# information panel for alpine emergency situations under the lid

I have used both the WT Andinista and the CCW Chaos. They are both well constructed, well conceived packs. Like all frameless packs the carrying capacity is limited. If you fill them up you will be hating life. The OP said he wanted a pack for light and fast 1-3 day alpine climbs which should be fine for these packs, although IMHO a smaller pack would be more appropriate like the CCW Chernobyl or the WT Ice Sac.

Chief:

How did you get your Vaude pack in the states? I contacted Vaude a couple months ago about another pack and was told that it was unavailable in the US.

Also, how is the torso length? It seems like the pack I was looking at was one size fits all. Is that the same as yours?

A-Lex wrote:Chief:

How did you get your Vaude pack in the states? I contacted Vaude a couple months ago about another pack and was told that it was unavailable in the US.

Also, how is the torso length? It seems like the pack I was looking at was one size fits all. Is that the same as yours?

Here are some of the following locations here in the US that currently have them:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/311, ... us-10.html

http://www.libertymountain.com/shop/pro ... 44&o=0&s=5

I will send more later.. working!

Chief:

Thanks! It's weird that some of their packs are available in the U.S. but not others. And the torso on this must be adjustable since the torso range listed on STP is 14-22".

Looks like a nice pack!

Yes... the TORSO adjustment system on it is very user friendy, easy and has a large range.

I've got both a 30L and 45L cilo worksack. I really like them and have not had any issues through a fair bit of hard use. The stitching and overall quality seems as good or better than what you find on any other pack I've seen and used. This is different from some cilo packs in the past as I think they've addressed some earlier issues. They both carry quite well given the lighter suspension, I find them to fit and feel better than BD packs. When overloaded to the top of the extension the 45 still carries just fine. Is it a backpacking pack? Def not. Will it take all your stuff into a spot without crushing you then be useable on a climb? Absolutely! If it fits you, you can't go wrong.