So I'm trying to lighten my group's climbing load for a technical climb we're doing on Rainier. I'm already going to have some quickdrawed slings in our rack for the ice screws/pickets/rock pro. However, for glacier travel I've always preferred having the ability to make prussicks for any emergency hauling system, rather than using a Klemheist or Autoblock knot.

I know that nylon webbing has better shock absorption than climbing cord, but I'm wondering how big of a difference it would make for use on pickets & ice screws on 40-50 degree terrain, as I'm tempted to use cord for some (but not all!) of my alpine draws.

Any thoughts?

I'm looking to shed weight by having alpine gear double as crevasse rescue gear.

Probably the most likely places where crevasse rescue would be needed would be lower on the route where I am not using the technical gear, so it would be easy to redistribute gear amongst team mates for the glacier approaches and then collect most of it for leading in the technical sections. However, I don't want to compromise my climbing system too much by using cord for maybe half of my draws, but I'm not sure if cord really has much if any real drawbacks for that use.

This time of year I don't expect too much of a big crevasse fall hazard, but always best to be prepared if it is easy to do.

I know the Z-C system very well since I usually travel in groups of 2, but this time we have a group of 3. Really the only difference in gear is you need 1 more prussick & carabiner or pulley and you can get a 6-1 advantage. It is fun raising/dragging your partner up deep snow cuts for practice with this system too >:-)

PellucidWombat wrote:This time of year I don't expect too much of a big crevasse fall hazard, but always best to be prepared if it is easy to do.

I know the Z-C system very well since I usually travel in groups of 2, but this time we have a group of 3. Really the only difference in gear is you need 1 more prussick & carabiner or pulley and you can get a 6-1 advantage. It is fun raising/dragging your partner up deep snow cuts for practice with this system too >:-)

Carbon Glacier had some pretty huge crevasses. To be honest I was more worried about falling into one of those than traversing 45-50 degree icy slopes on Liberty Ridge.


Fletch, last year when I climbed Ingraham Direct I and my partner punched through couple of times each. On two of those air bellow seemed very significant. If you will be taking emmons or DC it will not be bad I think. When I took Emmons down from LR it seemed like a giant snow field with some cracks here and there- very mellow..

and watch out for these too...ice fall is pretty common on that cap.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JyQbJkB0Es[/youtube]

I took this video right before we set off from Thumb rock camp

It is extremely easy to avoid the crevasses on Liberty's approach from any direction. The mtn is loosing snow fast right now.

I'd take ice screws and and may be a picket or two . (but haven't yet bothered with picket) You can leave the rock gear at home.

Vitaliy M. wrote:
/

whoaaaaaaaaa man!!!!!! that snowboard run looks down the midlde looks epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

epicclimb wrote:
whoaaaaaaaaa man!!!!!! that snowboard run looks down the midlde looks epic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It does! If I was on that level I would be out there!

PellucidWombat wrote:
I know that nylon webbing has better shock absorption than climbing cord,

??, Both are static, so no discernible shock absorption. You may be referring to strength, typically cord is 6mm and webbing is 9/16, so the webbing is stronger. You aren't going to save much weight doing this, I can think of a lot better places to save than compromising on slingage. The only advantage you can get from cord is rapping directly on it the sheath somewhat protects the core from heat damage when pulling.

Get some dyneema slings if you're that worried about weight. Or get some tech cord which is as strong as webbing.

Vitaliy M. wrote: If I was on that level I would be out there!

Level?

Are you on a Green Card or a Visa or just a good ole undocumented bumming intruder?

The Chief wrote:

Vitaliy M. wrote: If I was on that level I would be out there!

Level?

Are you on a Green Card or a Visa or just a good ole undocumented bumming intruder?

Skill level to board down something up to 55degrees Chef. I understand this concept is a bit too complicated for a trailerpark resident.

I am a citizen by the way. A proud American.

Vitaliy M. wrote:I am a citizen by the way.

So can you finally own a car and quit worrying about going over those dastardly lease miles???


Mark,
Keep the prussik-ready cordage (I prefer to rack three on my harness- 2 on the rope and 1 to spare) on your harness. They weigh virtually nothing, are easier to work with and will be a lot more useful on an icy rope. I would even forego the prussiks if you're only a two-man team in favor of overhand loops- that way you can aid your way out or use the loops to anchor.
Either way, I wouldn't overthink it at all. Train harder if you're worried about that kind of weight! For pete's sake, even gumbies like Vitaliy have no problem with the Lib!

Shaving some weight there since one of my partners really wants to trim down the weight to leave us as fresh as possible at the end of our first climb (we're not just doing Liberty Ridge). Though really to me it seems like the most tempting part of re-using the prussics in place of draws is just having that much less stuff to bring up and have as clutter. e.g. still on the fence about ditching the pickets (much bigger weight/bulk saver!) since I'd expect that they either won't be needed or a deadman can be improvised.

I couldn't see any reason why cord should not be used for alpine draws, except that I rarely see it used for such, so I was just wondering if anyone else might.

Dane - thanks for the beta/conditions update for the approach.
Buckaroo - thanks for the insights of webbing vs. cord.