Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

Suggestions and comments about SummitPost's features, policies, and procedures. Post bugs here.
User Avatar
Bubba Suess

 
Posts: 726
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:15 pm
Thanked: 183 times in 105 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Bubba Suess » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:11 am

I think that the wiki type editing is a complete non-starter. Most of those of us who take care to create good pages do not want them fussed with. That said, I agree that people besides the page maintainer should be able to contribute to pages. I think there are two good options that might strike a balance between owner control and user contribution.

1. Perhaps the page owner can identify which sections or subsections are open to public editing. If, at the outset of page creation they want to check a box that allows blanket editing privileges to all (a de facto wiki) then that is to their liking. If they only want certain sections to be public then there ought to be a box to check or a drop down that allows that section or sub section to be publicly edited. By doing this, then the owner has control over what is edited while those who want to contribute something have the ability to do so in the open areas.

An open section at the bottom of the page, as previously suggested would also be a good option for odds and ends, in addition to my aforementioned suggestion.

2. The other option, which could work in conjunction with my previous suggestion or separately, is to bypass the elves in adding editing and admin privileges to users. In this scenario, if a user wants to contribute, they need to apply to the page owner to get editing privileges. Perhaps a stable of contributors can be developed for really popular pages, all under the overall direction of the page owner. For those concerned, power point can be apportioned to added editors based on volume of owner approved content in addition to those awarded the original developer of the page.

3. Either way, the separate issue of inactive users and their pages needs to be addressed. However, that is a separate issue from the purpose of this thread and should not distract from the larger issue at hand.

The following user would like to thank Bubba Suess for this post
Castlereagh, PellucidWombat

User Avatar
mtnhiker13

 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:27 pm
Thanked: 7 times in 2 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by mtnhiker13 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:50 am

I have alerted and discussed this matter with my husband, who originally wrote and created the pages I currently maintain. He put a tremendous amount of work into them, and when he ceased his regular schedule here at SummitPost, he wanted to remove all of his material for fear something like this would happen. I convinced him to leave most of his work in my care, and I have him make edits and changes when it's better for him to do it rather than me. To see SummitPost lose such a large contribution would have been a horrible set-back for this web site.

We are both "old school" members and have had no problems maitaining our pages under the current system and see no need to change it now.

If the additions and corrections are moved to be visible at the bottom of the page, that is fine. We do like the idea of calling the section "appendix." That way we still have control over the pages and we can determine if new informatin should be added. We usually add pertinent information and we appreciate any help from members.

But we totally do not agree with allowing users to edit any content of these pages. We work hard to maintain them, "spruce them up" when we think it's needed, and we check in to SP often to monitor traffic (hits) and comments.

A wiki format invites problem users. Some could seek revenge because they don't have the page they long for and add bogus information. My husband has been repeatedly put off by bad grammar, poor spelling, poor paragraph structure and much more on SP. The trend to write all text without capital letters is bewildering. Wiki=constant mopping up, in our opinion. We're glad to see the format is being refused for the most part. If it wasn't, we would take our leave of SP.

Perhaps if some owners welcome the input they could have the option to allow others to add to and edit their pages?

We might feel differently if we weren't watching over such a large amount of content that represents literally months and years of hard work, but that is our opinion on this matter. Our thanks to the elves for the PM notification.

The following user would like to thank mtnhiker13 for this post
Arthur Digbee, Castlereagh, chugach mtn boy, Kiefer, rgg, surgent

User Avatar
chugach mtn boy

 
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:54 pm
Thanked: 224 times in 129 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by chugach mtn boy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:03 am

Josh Lewis wrote:
Not sure if this was already mentioned (a similar idea was), but if submitters had some kind of check box on the page to allow editors, this would completely make "wikifying" summitpost more appropriate because it would then be up to the users. Yeah I know you would still have some users who might not activate it, but I think many would.


If the idea of the check box is accepted, I would suggest having the check box appear next to every section when you are creating or editing a page. You can check the box next to sections you want to open for editing.

The following user would like to thank chugach mtn boy for this post
Arthur Digbee, Josh Lewis, PellucidWombat

User Avatar
Josh Lewis

 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
Thanked: 1108 times in 677 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Josh Lewis » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:20 am

Now that's also a neat idea. 8)

User Avatar
chugach mtn boy

 
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:54 pm
Thanked: 224 times in 129 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by chugach mtn boy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:21 am

borutbk wrote:Isn't it a shame that Keith (knoback) had to leave in order for a serious discussion to take place?

Putting aside why knoback actually left, what he was talking about before he left was what he saw as the misuse of the "routes" category for all manner of trails and walks. I think he identified a genuine problem, and I would propose, on a going-forward basis, to
(1) have a separate page category called "technical routes" and
(2) make that category of pages more wiki-style, since there seems more desire to go that direction among the relatively few serious techical climbers on SP and since it would be a restricted area in which to experiment with wiki techniques.

A side benefit is that climbers like knoback would never again have the misfortune of pulling up a "route" and finding that it's just somebody extolling the delights of a walk through the meadows. Or if they did have that misfortune, they could wiki the route right into oblivion.

User Avatar
Michael Hoyt

 
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:43 pm
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Michael Hoyt » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:42 am

I'm with Bob Sihler on this. I'm not interested in having someone "edit" content that I've contributed, but am willing to let people place information in an easily-visible section of additions and corrections on my pages. However, I want to retain the right to delete anything from that section which proves to be incorrect or worthless.

Mike Hoyt

User Avatar
silversummit

 
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:51 pm
Thanked: 16 times in 12 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by silversummit » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:43 am

I'm not a page or route contributor but I've been around for 3+ years so a few minor thoughts:
---Definitely NO to anything resembling a WIKI page, reasons stated well by others earlier;
---APPENDIX type entries at the bottom of a page sounds promising at first but could turn problematic for some mountains, routes etc. especially if the owner has done a poor initial job of creating/maintaining the page;
---Ownership of pages of SP members who don't sign in once every four months - BYE! BYE! Original page creation credit retained but maintenance and expansion can be given to others after that.
---Like the idea someone suggested of new route/new pages requiring certain time of membership in SP or some other minimum requirement; seen some garbage submitted as a page which no or low voting alone doesn't keep from filling good space and getting unwanted attention. I hate to see people posting albums, pages etc. just to use SP's free services for their friends to view speech pictures or Capture the Flag Rights.
---Agree with possible division of ROUTE into 2 types: climbs and hikes or whatever fully knowing that climbs often have hikes preceding them and so on.

The following user would like to thank silversummit for this post
Afzal

User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7780
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Thanked: 787 times in 519 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by MoapaPk » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:14 am

Route pages are supposed to list the difficulty in the upper left, and most people seem pretty good about designating the YDS class and grade. I would think a person would know right away if the climb were technical or not; it seems like we are proposing a lot of changes just to keep people from having to hit the back button. Much of the problem really stems from the SP search function. Perhaps it should be easy to search for mountain names and class; perhaps the difficulty category should be automatically bolded and in red.

Consider:
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-whitney/150227

Most of the routes are technical; one is a walk-up; several are scrambles. Often technical climbers are keen to know the non-technical routes as well, for descent purposes. Folks who climb the Whitney technical routes often descend the Mountaineer's route.

(posted to two forums)
Last edited by MoapaPk on Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

User Avatar
lcarreau

 
Posts: 4226
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 pm
Thanked: 1898 times in 1415 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by lcarreau » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:16 am

Don't see a problem with having a separate page category for technical routes.

What I see is an emotional war between climbers and non-climbers. What's needed is an emotional rescue in the disguise of change. :wink:

Change the voting system - it SUCKS! Too much exposure is being given to popular images, while too little is being given to route pages.

One conflict I had was with a young man who was entirely absent from the Site, and failed to update his low-scoring pages.
This was embarrassing and had a negative impact on the content of this Site.

I would THINK if a person becomes inactive for more than 6 months, the page should be adopted by somebody else. What's the problem with that ???

Of course, you're ALWAYS going to have members with a wide range of egos and interests, so a positive change (sooner than later) SHOULD be in the Works.

Like it or not, there's always going to be dissatisfied people bitching and complaining, but for them "All The World's A Stage," and they are merely Players ..

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms ..."
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."

The following user would like to thank lcarreau for this post
silversummit

no avatar
Dan Shorb

 
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:06 pm
Thanked: 41 times in 29 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Dan Shorb » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:17 am

Rockclimber77 wrote:There are many other ways of "getting your information to the public" on summit post if you don't like a route or area description then just attach a trip report or add a route description or one of the other options available and simply make it better yourself.. try and avoid cluster maybe the highest points or hits will take priority in the search engine making your now new and improved description the first one we see in our search to find beta on that route.


Rockclimber77 has it right. Some great pages leave the adventure to those looking for it. Adding a tr is fine for those that want to share info the isn't shared initially, and it keeps it YOURs.

Don't go wiki.

But, I do like the pictures, summit registers, and trip reports others attach. I gives some great info and depth.
我不知道杰克

The following user would like to thank Dan Shorb for this post
Rockclimber77

User Avatar
Arthur Digbee

 
Posts: 2280
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:03 pm
Thanked: 255 times in 173 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Arthur Digbee » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:30 am

chugach mtn boy wrote:Josh Lewis wrote:
Not sure if this was already mentioned (a similar idea was), but if submitters had some kind of check box on the page to allow editors, this would completely make "wikifying" summitpost more appropriate because it would then be up to the users. Yeah I know you would still have some users who might not activate it, but I think many would.


If the idea of the check box is accepted, I would suggest having the check box appear next to every section when you are creating or editing a page. You can check the box next to sections you want to open for editing.


That's very helpful IMHO.

That's the only way I could accept any Wiki-like feature. But in some cases it's useful -- I put out a request for help on my Ozarks page and got three takers, as an example. The Adirondacks, Cascades and other ranges would be great for (optional) Wiki features.

Splitting up technical and non-technical routes is also a good idea. It wouldn't hurt to have SP become a leading source for non-technical routes. Existing trail sources suck, such as Backpacker's. Plus, Backpacker already uses SP for beta, most every issue, and making hiking routes more visible would help reach that market.

[Which reminds me of one of my pet ideas, repeatedly tossed out -- a "preferences" menu that would let users control what they see. Technical climbers could turn off non-technical routes and so on and so forth.]
OCCUPY SUMMITPOST !

The following user would like to thank Arthur Digbee for this post
Castlereagh, silversummit

User Avatar
Rockclimber77

 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:31 am
Thanked: 9 times in 5 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Rockclimber77 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:36 am

O.k. maybe we should be looking at this as a more economic forum, as opposed to political, eg. hits per page and popularity on the web....number of visiters... not emotions of contributers this is a business.. what would make this site more popular.. ok facebook vs myspace mountain project vs summit post .... we all know who won the first battle..

User Avatar
lcarreau

 
Posts: 4226
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 pm
Thanked: 1898 times in 1415 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by lcarreau » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:45 am

Summitpost has a uniqueness unequaled by NONE. Why compare it with other sites? That would be pointless, as we're trying to make it BETTER.

"Hey Jude don't make it bad

Take a sad song and make it better

Remember to let her into your heart

Than you can start to make it better ..."
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."

The following user would like to thank lcarreau for this post
Afzal, Kiefer

User Avatar
Rockclimber77

 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:31 am
Thanked: 9 times in 5 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by Rockclimber77 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:01 am

lcarreau wrote:Summitpost has a uniqueness unequaled by NONE. Why compare it with other sites? That would be pointless, as we're trying to make it BETTER.


I am not comparing it with other sites but i feel with the intelligent and loyal members this site has it should be far superior than mountain project, and i feel that it is... just trying to get the creative juices flowing is all I enjoy summit post.

User Avatar
lcarreau

 
Posts: 4226
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 pm
Thanked: 1898 times in 1415 posts

Re: Discussion: Collaboration, Edit/Submit Changes

by lcarreau » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:16 am

Rockclimber77 wrote: I enjoy summit post.


Complete agreement! I'd enjoy it (even more) if people kept their pages updated, rather they be technical or non-technical or whatever. Time for a change.
"Turkey Vultures always vomit when they get nervous."

The following user would like to thank lcarreau for this post
Josh Lewis

PreviousNext

Return to Site Feedback

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron