I do love it when a thread goes batshit crazy.

I've never used a VBL in a sleeping bag. Never felt the need. Between 2000 - 2009 I spent anything from 30-80 continuous days each year in temps down to -50C, usually -15C to -30C, and never had a problem with condensation building up inside the bag. Never. All kinds of weather, all kinds of temps, three different bags. Mostly this was in Antarctica, but includes a (May) trip up Denali, plus additional time in Tibet etc.

Do WTF you want, but I wouldn't want people reading this thread to think that a VBL was an automatic must-have for this season's well-dressed ice-warrior.

Steger's extra 20kg? I think that is crap, pure and simple. Either exageration, mistake, misprint or incompetence, but still crap.

I've tried VBL socks and didn't like them because they increased heel slippage. I do have some non-slippery ones from RBH but I've never really tried them on a real trip.

BTW Dane, your blog is blocked here in China. No doubt your capitalist-running-dog hardware sales have you ideologically opposed to the Party

Vitaliy M. wrote:

mistdaemon wrote:

Vitaliy M. wrote:mistdaemon, you think it is convenient to have a two sleeping bag set up (one inside the other) and sleep without your clothes(which will be cold in the morning)? How many times a night do you need to wake up and vent? What if you oversleep and don't vent?

A claim wouldn't have a question mark in the end, would it?

Yes, if the claim is included as part of a question.

Was previous question a claim?

It included both a claim and a question.

LOL You are amusing.

So are you. It appears that you don't think that you can include a claim in a question.

I asked you questions about it, because I never used one, that's it.

Which is why I answered your questions. You, at least, seem to have an interest in learning.

In my opinion when it is -20 in the tent there is no way in hell I want to be naked putting on clothes!
By the way I did not need to vent in my down bag once during the whole trip, and it did not end up weighting 35 pounds somehow...must be magic.

As to the magic, you might consider an experiment and weigh your sleeping bag (and all the clothes that you are wearing) at night and then in the morning as that is the only way you will see if it gains weight. Also, weigh yourself. You can do this in a more controlled environment so that you don't have to carry a scale with you .

I guess it is magic that your sleeping bag was always perfect for the changing temperature.

Damien Gildea wrote:I do love it when a thread goes batshit crazy.

I've never used a VBL in a sleeping bag. Never felt the need. Between 2000 - 2009 I spent anything from 30-80 continuous days each year in temps down to -50C, usually -15C to -30C, and never had a problem with condensation building up inside the bag. Never. All kinds of weather, all kinds of temps, three different bags. Mostly this was in Antarctica, but includes a (May) trip up Denali, plus additional time in Tibet etc.

Do WTF you want, but I wouldn't want people reading this thread to think that a VBL was an automatic must-have for this season's well-dressed ice-warrior.
.............
BTW Dane, your blog is blocked here in China. No doubt your capitalist-running-dog hardware sales have you ideologically opposed to the Party

Agreed. I like VBLs in lwt bags that a VBL will extend the temp rating on. I don't particularly like VBLs in a bag ..they stink over the long haul and are a pia/tight if not sewn into the bag. Take a warm/heavy enough bag and no need. VBL sox? Get a better pair of boots is my answer. Some of the better inners boots will already be a VBL. China? I get steady traffic from China but there is a firewall they must leap to get in. Something about a continued buy/buy/buy thing I suspect. Ask one of the local guys how to Almost as bad as guys talking shit on stuff they obvious have no clue on.

JHH60 wrote:
If you use a VB liner in your sleeping bag, will your damp socks, inner boots, pants, etc. still dry out overnight if you sleep with them in your sleeping bag? I haven't used a VB sleeping bag liner but I would guess that wet stuff would stay wetter inside a VB lined bag than in a non-VB lined bag.

That is a good question. I haven't slept with inner boots in my VBL bag, but I did sleep with damp socks, pants and a shirt. After I warmed up, the vapor level got pretty high, and quickly dried out all the clothing. Far better than my experience with damp clothing in a non VBL bag. In the morning, all the clothing was dry.

After roughly a month of use, the VBL does get a bit stinky. I use water and a washcloth to clean it, and it removes the stink. If I didn't have the VBL, the stink would have gone into the down, where it would have been much harder to get out.

lopgok

So, is my concern about a down sleeping bag in a snow cave a reasonable one? Granted, I don't expect to end up in one, but I've never had to worry about being wet, since I always use synthetics.

I would be concerned about any bag in a snow cave.
Even a wet synthetic bag will be a very bad night.
I slept in a wet down bag long ago, when some clowns dumped a liter of water on
my bag. It wasn't fun.

If I was thinking of being in a small snow cave, I would want a waterproof bivy for the sleeping bag. With a conventional bag, there will be a bit of moisture from you, which will have to go through the bag and then through the bivy (or freeze on the inside of the bivy). With a VBL bag (synthetic or down), there should be little or no moisture to soak the bivy.

When I was in fairbanks, I built a snow cave. It was quite a bit of work, and I didn't end up sleeping inside the cave. It was old, hard packed snow that I was digging through. No way around it - digging a cave is a lot of work.

You will not dig a snow cave on Denali. But if you want to sleep in a snow cave at some point a bivy sac is nice to have, with a ground pad of course. If it is in case of an emergency than it's an emergency, and you don't really choose what you have. Stays at 0c to +1c in snow caves if you build a good one, so great emergency shelter, although not too practical. Snow trench I think is a more realistic shelter.

Thanks, guys.