Is it winter?

Post general questions and discuss issues related to climbing.
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colinr

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by colinr » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:12 pm

Chief, thanks for sharing the interesting notes on California-Sierra water supply that match what I've noticed. More attention given to groundwater data would be fun to follow. I haven't paid close attention, but I doubt the story is as rosey in the deeper southwest.
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Peninsula, although I won't pursue it living where I do, the bristlecone pine is what caught my interest the most.
There are also some huge, fast growing, and interesting to admire deodore cedars across the creek from my backyard.
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butitsadryheat wrote:I have 4 redwoods in my backyard and side yard, but they are not the Aptos Blue, they are the true Santa Cruz variety that you see on the coast...We have seen a large die off of Aptos Blue here, not only because they are not native to here, but many people plant them near walls and streets, where they get oppressive radiant heat. Mine have at least 6 inches of duff built up under them over the years, and are set back from the heat...oak...nice understory of Japanese Maples that no longer get the wind burn they used to, and they get great color now.


Sounds a lot like the trendiness I've noticed with the aptos blue in many places, including in shopping centers and along sun beaten walls down the street from me (we do get intense heat waves here most summers, but nothing like the constant dry heat of the Valley). Your yard sounds a lot like my dad's, but he's been going with aptos blue in the last few years as he adds more redwoods. It works under the shade of the majestic old oaks. He's also lucky to live near the Sacramento River and next to a well lot. When his fences fell down in big winter storms, he expanded his yard onto a P.G. & E. easement, as well as onto the well lot. Eventually a subdivision went in behind him, requiring a back fence to cut off the P.G. & E. section, but the city water workers actually started to immitate his redwood plantings among the oaks and left a large swath of land for him to tend to behind a row of oleanders that they added. He likes to plant giant pumpkins there, among many other fruits and vegetables in the sunny areas.

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Re: Is it winter?

by Gafoto » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:51 am

TimB wrote:I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....

They really don't do well in adverse conditions...

But really, it would probably do alright, as long as the soil is somewhat similar to their natural habitat. The idea of planting a tree that could not only outlive me, but my house, my city and quite possibly western civilization as we know it is kind of appealing. I know, I'll carve my name in it!

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colinr

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by colinr » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:30 am

Besides the containers full of rain water to splash around in on a warm, sunny day, my kids and I had some extra fun amongst the redwood duff. Despite my dad always talking about getting one gallon redwoods, I found it easiest to find 15 gallon aptos blues in my town. Measurements from my yard listed in order of aptos blue redwood that gets least sun to trees that get the most sun:

6” girth, 10’ tall, planted 2 years ago
10” girth, 12’ tall, planted 2 years ago
12” girth, 18’ tall, planted 2 years ago
40” girth, over 25’ height, and about 15’ wide, planted 6.5 years ago

Am I missing something, or has it been a little while since there has been a good thread in which a bunch of measuring was going on?





Image


As far as coastal redwood deaths, varieties, and sizes, read on if interested as I was:

My in-laws have several aptos blue/sequoia sempervirens providing a back fence screen in Visalia. I found this website interesting as it pertained to conditions leading to tree deaths in that part of the state (salty conditions--I’m guessing related to the historic evaporation of irrigation water in Kings County) as well as tree deaths in my county (due to a problem with recycled water). Common varieties of sequoia sempervirens were listed as well:
http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/datastore/268-209.pdf

I also found it interesting to read today that prior to logging, it is likely that some sequoia semperviren/coastal redwoods were not only the tallest trees in the world, but also the largest in volume (something their relatives in the sierra are more known for). Douglas fir and Australian ash were mentioned as contenders for the tallest trees prior to logging. One source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_sempervirens

I was actually looking for information about the varieties that are most often sold and found this--
A vast improvement was made when cuttings were taken from superior specimen growing along Highway 17 in Santa Clara County, California.From the many cuttings tested, four have become popular for commercial production:

Aptos Blue - A strong growing tree with blue-green foliage and a horizontal branching pattern - this is the most popular cultivar. This cultivar is especially beautiful in spring when light new growth contrasts with older bluish-green.

Soquel - A very symmetrical growth pattern with branches radiating horizontally and slightly upward. Its strong terminal leader makes it the easiest to train. Foliage is fine, and tree grows thick and full, even during youth.

Santa Cruz - A full, dense tree with yellow-green foliage. The branches tend to ascend more than the other clones. Very easy to train. Never really caught on due to light bleached foliage color - least cold tolerant selection.

Los Altos - Older foliage a nice contrast for light green spring growth. Strong, symmetrical shape with horizontally radiating branches typify this clone. Least cultivated, because it tends to produce a lot of cones at a young age.

http://rod-whitlow.suite101.com/the-coastal-redwood-tree-a35798#ixzz1kWgy5ulK

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The Chief

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by The Chief » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:43 am

Gafoto wrote:
TimB wrote:I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....


They really don't do well in adverse conditions...


Really?

The Pinus longaeva dude below lives at 12K' and survives in variable temps ranging from -30 deg F to 80 deg F with sustained winter blizzards and winds upwards of 100mph buried in over 30 feet of snow and has done so for well over 4,842 years. It's hundreds of brothers and sisters throughout the five major groves within the same vicinity have done so as well in the same "adverse conditions".
Image




Over and Out.

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colinr

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by colinr » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:52 am

:lol:

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peninsula

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by peninsula » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:59 am

SeanReedy wrote:
Am I missing something, or has it been a little while since there has been a good thread in which a bunch of measuring was going on?


Image




The best I've got compared to the tree above is a gelding. Reminds me of the movie, They Shoot Horses, Don't They? My memory is kind of fuzzy, maybe I have the wrong movie...

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The Chief

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by The Chief » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:20 am

More like "Blazing Saddles" Greg

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dskoon

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by dskoon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:41 am

Gafoto wrote:
TimB wrote:I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....

They really don't do well in adverse conditions...


Like Chief, I say, Really? Perhaps you meant super arid?

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RayMondo

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by RayMondo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:38 am

I've been able to grow a Sequoiadendron giganteum over here in Somerset, UK. Bought it in the US in 1994 and brought it over on the plane :shock: (as a 6 inch shoot :roll: ) and it's now 25 ft tall and doing well. Base of trunk is now 4 ft diameter, and trunk 3ft. Also been able to propagate a couple more shoots, just from dendron cuttings. The climate here is mild to cold winters, sometimes heavy snow, plenty of rainfall and high winds.

Sure makes a great retreat to sit under.

Image
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peninsula

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by peninsula » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:14 pm

The Chief wrote:More like "Blazing Saddles" Greg


A Man Called Horse ??

dskoon wrote:
Gafoto wrote:
TimB wrote:I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....

They really don't do well in adverse conditions...


Like Chief, I say, Really? Perhaps you meant super arid?


I have read that BCPs planted domestically may not survive all that long (hundreds of years at best). I found an interesting article on P. aristata regarding longevity that explains why the likes of the one I planted might not see the next millenium:

Age class structure: Rocky Mountain bristlecone pine stands are generally mixed-aged; however, old-growth stands may contain few or no young Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines [25].

Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines are long lived. They do not attain the extreme old ages that some Great Basin bristlecone pines do, but some Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines reach 1 or 2 millennia in age. The oldest Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines occur on high-elevation, dry sites that promote slow rates of tree growth and heart rot decay [25,73,74]. A dozen Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines in the South Park area of Colorado are documented as over 1,600 years of age. The oldest known Rocky Mountain bristlecone pine grows in the southern Front Range. It had 2,435 countable annual rings in 1992; its actual age was estimated at 2,500 years [22,25]. The oldest known Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines in Arizona are on the San Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff. One Rocky Mountain bristlecone pine in the area was documented at 1,438 years of age in 1984 [137].

Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines in lower subalpine habitats are more susceptible to heart-rot fungi and other mortality agents than trees at high elevations. Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines in montane Rocky Mountain bristlecone pine/Thurber fescue habitats, for example, do not live much over 300 years [34].


RayMondo wrote:I've been able to grow a Sequoiadendron giganteum over here in Somerset, UK. Bought it in the US in 1994 and brought it over on the plane :shock: (as a 6 inch shoot :roll: ) and it's now 25 ft tall and doing well. Base of trunk is now 4 ft diameter, and trunk 3ft. Also been able to propagate a couple more shoots, just from dendron cuttings. The climate here is mild to cold winters, sometimes heavy snow, plenty of rainfall and high winds.

Sure makes a great retreat to sit under.


Nice specimen RayMondo! My seedlings are now getting their second set of needles. I hope they grow as fast as the UK transplants.

I finished up with my planting project yesterday. Planting 13 trees, gopher-proofing with wire mesh, carrying five-gallon buckets of water... whew! I ended up returning one of the incense cedars due to a damaged trunk base and replaced it with a limber pine (P. flexilis). The one I got is commonly called "Vanderwolf's Pyramid". It is a beautiful tree with growth and habitat characteristics very similar to BCP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limber_Pine

Limber pines are native to the higher elevations above Pine Valley.

I'm headed to Valley Center tomorrow to see if I can get an englemann oak in a 24" container. I'll transport it in a horse trailer if I decide to buy it. It is 7 feet tall with a 1" trunk diameter, not all that big, but the best I can do for the money (asking price is $210.00). I found a nursery with 60"-boxed englemanns for $2,500 and one in a 72" box for $4000.00! The 72" specimen weighs 12,000 pounds! I think the price and weight pretty much limits my choices. They are slow growing trees.

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Re: Is it winter?

by lcarreau » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:16 pm

So ... when Arizona firefighters get called to rescue a cat up a tree ..

Image

Image

- Photography by PZ Myers - March 30, 2011
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butitsadryheat

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by butitsadryheat » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:07 pm

lcarreau wrote:So ... when Arizona firefighters get called to rescue a cat up a tree ..

Image

Image

- Photography by PZ Myers - March 30, 2011



how on earth.....!


saguaros don't even start growing the arms until 100 years old or so, and arms as long as the ones above, prolly another 25-50 years
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peninsula

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by peninsula » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:49 am

Is there such a thing as planters anonymous?

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colinr

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by colinr » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:24 am

:lol: You had me worried with all the talk of expensive plants.

For me it is one thing after another. The one constant is nature and its various appeals.

I take it to be a principle rule of life, not to be too much addicted to any one thing.


How did your mission go, Peninsula (assuming you got what you described)?

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peninsula

 
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Re: Is it winter?

by peninsula » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:05 am

SeanReedy wrote::lol: You had me worried with all the talk of expensive plants.

For me it is one thing after another. The one constant is nature and its various appeals.

How did your mission go, Peninsula?


It went terrifically. However, I could not resist another nursery visit. It was Gautay Mountain Nursery today. I tried to walk away... I guess it is a mission in progress. In one corner, the dead oak has propagated a bristlecone pine and a desert willow.

http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.p ... rm_post=12

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