Hey all-

I'm planning on doing some climbing down in Peru this summer and wanted to get some experience in climbing sustained slopes of 50 degrees or so of snow and ice. Any suggestions on climbs that might be good for this in the Salt Lake City area this winter?

Thanks!
M

South ridge of Superior would be a good quick access trainer. Everest Ridge would probably be another good one. Any of the couloirs on the north side of LCC would be great, although theyre only 40 or so. Utah Avalanche Center daily forecasts would also allow you to practice snow safety/reading.

Has anyone done either of those two routes this time of year.

I climbed the two routes listed above at this time of year, but the snow had yet to fall on both occasions. With this thin veil of snow, and more on the way this week, it might make things awkward and unpleasant. Yet on the south aspect, you could always get a good melt after a sunny week at this time of year. Mostly what I remember is that my fingers were constantly cold, but the scenery was stellar with fall colors in the mountain valleys. Here's a pic from a few years back and has a cool separation of the seasons from this time of year on the top of Monte Cristo.

mcg11 wrote:Hey all-

I'm planning on doing some climbing down in Peru this summer and wanted to get some experience in climbing sustained slopes of 50 degrees or so of snow and ice. Any suggestions on climbs that might be good for this in the Salt Lake City area this winter?

Thanks!
M

The most sustained 50 degree couloir is probably The Needle on North Thunder Mountain (there are also a few other couloirs of similar nature in Hogum Fork). Other steep couloirs around 50 degrees are Devil's Castle Couloir, Cleavage Couloir on AF Twins, Grunge Couloir on North Timpanogos, North Couloir on Mt. Nebo, Y and Y-not Couloirs in LCC. The book "Chuting Gallery" by Andrew McLean has good info on steep Wasatch couloirs.

For steep slopes, try the West Face of Timpanogos (Battle Creek South Fork is steeper than the North Fork), East Face of Mt. Nebo, South Face of Mt. Superior, East Face of Lone Peak. I'm sure I'm missing some obvious routes, but others with likely pitch in with additional info.

In my opinion you would be better served by climbing steep waterfall ice. Once you are leading WI3 or harder, 50 degree ice will seem very casual.

MCG,

Marauders' suggestions are all excellent. No matter where in Northern Utah you live, there is tons of accessible terrain of the type you're looking for. The best practice would be long days on these climbs, placing snow pickets and/or ice screws, and practicing self arrest on shorter similar slopes.

If you plan on climbing in Peru with two technical tools rather than a single mountaineering axe, some easy WI2-3 waterfall ice climbing would be great practice too.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:In my opinion you would be better served by climbing steep waterfall ice. Once you are leading WI3 or harder, 50 degree ice will seem very casual.

WORD. I fully agree. Although me worse nightmares have been on steep snow not moderate ice.

Grunge couloir ( as with the Needle) in spring would be perfect, as would the NW couloir of the Pfeiff, as would Devil's Castle.

Another great one would be the Stettner/Chevy/Ford on the Grand, NW Couloir on the Middle, etc..... Liberty Ridge on Rainier, Keiners and others in RMNP.

...i wish i was going to Peru, and had to train on all those.

Hey... Thanks for all the great feedback everyone!

FortMental wrote:

ExcitibleBoy wrote:In my opinion you would be better served by climbing steep waterfall ice. Once you are leading WI3 or harder, 50 degree ice will seem very casual.

-Baloney.

It might be true for the first 50 feet or even 100 feet....not after 1,500 feet of simul-climbing with a pack on, and one long, one short tool.

word, which is why the Stettner and Lib Ridge would be perfect. Both have moderate ice and steep snow. I do agree, however, that adding steep ice into a list of climbs (that includes long, steep snow climbs), will help in training for long Andean routes and will make terrain variations seem less technical. Especially if the climber hasn't ever done exposed alpine ice prior to the training mentioned.

... Still trying to digest all the options and read through the route descriptions. Any thoughts on what conditions might be like on Grunge Couloir on North Timpanogos in early December?

Thank you!
M

mcg11 wrote:... Still trying to digest all the options and read through the route descriptions. Any thoughts on what conditions might be like on Grunge Couloir on North Timpanogos in early December?

Thank you!
M

I'm still wishin I was u goin to Peru. Seems like you have a good amount of time to do stuff to prepare. Thats sweet. My thoughts on the Grunge in Dec. are that that might be pressing the limit of good conditions. but you never know until you go, eh? Still, I'd suggest others before that line. avalanches come to the forefront of my mind, just cuz that is a perfect avi slope. What's your avi knowledge? I'd add there are tons more accessible routes on Timp at that time of year that would have similar conditions, and, you wouldn't have to shlog as far to figure them out. I hesitate, however, to be definitive with any suggestion, especially with "mountain time" as possibly the most important aspect of training (even if you turn around without a summit bid...).

I'd say start with the south ridge of Superior, and go from there. That's quick access, quick descent, largely safe, and has steep snow and easy rock. You'd get your 50 degree slopes on that forsure, and can get your mountain legs under you for the rest of winter. I do this climb frequently as a yearround workout, and the knife edge is perfect 'exposure' training.

Watch this vid about Kelly Cordes training and you'll see that the best training doesn't necessarily involve the exact type of line you want to do in the Andes. He talks about long days in the mountains, endurances days, and technical days, and also says "what you think you can do, is probably about half of what you can really do." :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g7DnGyYGnw

vidclimber wrote:Has anyone done either of those two routes this time of year.

I've done South ridge, you should go do it. its always good...kinda.

ExcitibleBoy wrote:In my opinion you would be better served by climbing steep waterfall ice. Once you are leading WI3 or harder, 50 degree ice will seem very casual.

I disagree. The techniques are different especially on 50 degree snow, where you can use French technique and/or mixed ("American") technique, vs. steep waterfall ice where you will almost certainly be front pointing.

Also, if you don't have any experience on 50 degree snow or ice you might want to find an experienced friend and/or guide to show you the technique, especially if you haven't practiced self-arrest. It's not rocket science, and books like Freedom of the Hills have pretty good illustrations and explanations, but some skills are easier to learn if you have someone who knows what they are doing show them to you.

Also, perhaps obvious, but if you are practicing solo make sure that the runout from the slope doesn't land you in something nasty. You can pick up a lot of speed on a 50 degree snow or ice slope, especially if you haven't practiced self arrest.

mcg11 wrote:... Still trying to digest all the options and read through the route descriptions. Any thoughts on what conditions might be like on Grunge Couloir on North Timpanogos in early December?

Thank you!
M

That early in the season, it's not likely the Grunge Couloir will provide the snow conditions that will approximate firm snow or alpine ice. The early season snowpack is typically unconsolidated and granular. You might get a crust on top, but it's usually only semi-suportable which would be crappy for the conditions you're trying to find.

Your best bet is something with a southern aspect that will melt and freeze during a warm spell and gain a nice, thick, firm, supportable surface. For those conditions in December, you're probably looking at South Face of Superior (right up the middle, or Pinball Alley), or other chutes along that south facing Cottonwood Ridge (i.e. White Pine Chutes, Tanner's Gulch, Maybird Couloir, Lisa Falls Couloir). The west face of Timp, which is actually facing southwest, could also be good from all the sun and wind on the upper slopes.

January always seems to provide a 2 week thaw that creates firm snow and you'll have a deeper, more stable, snowpack by then. Just food for thought.