FWIW I can (usually) go from sea level and ascend to 14K' without clear signs of AMS like headache or nausea if I have two nights at intermediate altitude. That said I have definitely noticed a mental deficit when I go up quickly to altitude - harder to focus and make decisions, harder to routefind. I haven't done enough leading above 12K to say exactly how much impact it's had but when following it's certainly harder. The impact seems less if I'm able to spend more than a week at altitude.

Because I'm a geek and can't resist googling this stuff I found the following paper on physiological considerations fpr a high altitude lab on the web which seems to be cited in a number of places. Section 2.5 ("Mental Ability") quotes some interesting statistics on the impact of moderate altitude on coordination, attention span, short term memory, etc.

http://www.alma.nrao.edu/memos/html-memos/alma162/memo162.html

I climb about the same everywhere (sea level or altitude) - not very good or hard.

dug wrote:

kovarpa wrote:I climb about the same everywhere (sea level or altitude) - not very good or hard.

I call bullshit!!

Hey Rob,

Find that doing light runs at altitude seems to help, don't know why, but every-time I spend at least 2-3 days doing fast-packing or light running at altitude it really seems to help!

cheers

The Chief wrote:

And what kind of Aerobic PT resume do you have?

I have no idea! I'm a fairly fast hiker here in the low mountains of the east, but I really slow down on the uphill at altitude. I hike regularly and try to see that it gets seriously aerobic for a reasonable length of time, but when I'm hiking up a steep slope at altitude I do huff and puff and have to stop and rest/catch my breath from time to time. I just got back from Peru where I did a 9-day trek in the Cordillera Blanca - no Diamox and no AMS, but I was still slow heading up the last pass. For what it's worth, I do fine at altitude when the trail is level or heading down - about the same as around here.

dug wrote:

kovarpa wrote:I climb about the same everywhere (sea level or altitude) - not very good or hard.

I call bullshit!!

U on da couchpotato plan P?

The crags are AT 12,000'.

I found this paper very useful, although there are many such as this one or this one just do a seach

Over the last couple of winters since I acquired this wonderful spinal injury I have noticed that when a storm comes through I tend to feel weaker. I asked my rehab doc about this, and he basically said it's common for people to feel more aches & pains, but couldn't explain why.

I wonder if it's because of a rapid decrease in air pressure -- these pacific storms are low pressure systems. Similarly, going to altitude quickly would decrease air pressure rapidly. A physical therapist friend theorized that cerebrospinal fluid pressure in my spinal cord is not being equalized as quickly as before, maybe pressing on the cord causing muscle weakness .. with the contusion damage, multilevel fusion and titanium hardware in there I guess a lot could be happening ..

I can almost imagine climbing at altitude but what how about doing technical climbing with a 50Ib pack? I just dont get it, the stress it puts on your fingers and feet is unbearable yet somehow people climb stuff like Denalis Cassin ridge (highly technical, altitude, heavy packs) remains a mystery to me.

fortybelow wrote:I can almost imagine climbing at altitude but what how about doing technical climbing with a 50Ib pack? I just dont get it, the stress it puts on your fingers and feet is unbearable yet somehow people climb stuff like Denalis Cassin ridge (highly technical, altitude, heavy packs) remains a mystery to me.

Most teams on alpine-style ascents dump the majority of the gear on the second so that the leader is relatively unencumbered. But yeah, sucks to be the second.

fortybelow wrote:I can almost imagine climbing at altitude but what how about doing technical climbing with a 50Ib pack? I just dont get it, the stress it puts on your fingers and feet is unbearable yet somehow people climb stuff like Denalis Cassin ridge (highly technical, altitude, heavy packs) remains a mystery to me.

Because it allows you to do a great route? Grade IV+ alpine routes often require a "carry over" where you carry your gear to the top and descend a different route. You don't have to go to Alaska to do one of these. E.g., Liberty Ridge on Rainier involves carrying a multiday pack up a sustained 40+ degree alpine ice route gaining 7000 feet. The crux is a vertical ice pitch at the bergschrund, which you face at 13,000.' It isn't unbearably stressful on fingers or feet and is quite fun, though definitely harder than it would be at lower altitude.

Hey Rob!
Since I haven't climbed anything really hard (over 5.6/5.7) at altitude, take this for what it's worth (not much! ) but I wouldn't give up yet. Maybe work on it a bit more and try getting stronger than you need to be (so I suppose that means, yes, you'll be downgrading.) If partnering is an issue, maybe you can acclimatize ahead of your partners on some non-technical terrain before you hit your objective. Although it's not done on smaller peaks, people do go up and down before summit pushes in the Himalayas, for example, and climb the West Buttress before they climb West Rib or Cassin on Denali so it's not unheard of. (I'm not necessarily suggesting these climbs specifically but the concept...you know what I mean.)

The comment about pressure breathing also made me this of this: http://www.powerbreathe.com. I just looked it up and under "Other medical conditions" (http://www.powerbreathe.com/select-model/select-model-medic/select-model-medical-other-medical-conditions.html) it mentions a study about spinal cord injuries. You're probably way beyond this in terms of your rehabilitation but there's a heavy resistance version for athletic training.

Good luck!! I hope you find a solution that works for you!!

SophiaClimbs wrote:Hey Rob!
Since I haven't climbed anything really hard (over 5.6/5.7) at altitude, take this for what it's worth (not much! ) but I wouldn't give up yet. Maybe work on it a bit more and try getting stronger than you need to be (so I suppose that means, yes, you'll be downgrading.) If partnering is an issue, maybe you can acclimatize ahead of your partners on some non-technical terrain before you hit your objective. Although it's not done on smaller peaks, people do go up and down before summit pushes in the Himalayas, for example, and climb the West Buttress before they climb West Rib or Cassin on Denali so it's not unheard of. (I'm not necessarily suggesting these climbs specifically but the concept...you know what I mean.)

The comment about pressure breathing also made me this of this: http://www.powerbreathe.com. I just looked it up and under "Other medical conditions" (http://www.powerbreathe.com/select-model/select-model-medic/select-model-medical-other-medical-conditions.html) it mentions a study about spinal cord injuries. You're probably way beyond this in terms of your rehabilitation but there's a heavy resistance version for athletic training.

Good luck!! I hope you find a solution that works for you!!

Thanks Sophia, I was hoping you would chime in This does give me some other ideas to work with.

In other news, I talked to some folks and decided to go see my doc today, and now have a bottle of acetazolamide on my desk. Think I'll go up to Tuolumne and spend some time in the meadows, then do Mt. Dana to see how the stuff affects me.

If y'all hear about some dazed idiot wandering around Yosemite randomly urinating, that'll probably be me

Nooooooooooooo!

Not another soon to be Diamox addict!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

(Rob, please don't forget the side affects that prevail)