Kahuna wrote:WyomingSummits wrote:FOTH page 240. "Runners are used to isolate rope movement from the protection, keeping protection from wiggling or walking from it's intended placement, and also helps minimize friction or rope drag on the climbing rope". Yeah, Freedom of the Hills obviously meant "dogbone sport climbing draws" when they said "runners". Moron. And yeah, I understand twin and double rope technique.
NO.... the ref where you stated:WyomingSummits wrote: but there are documented cases of multiple pieces zippering because of bad techniques that are perfectly fine on a sport climb.
Let's see em.mattyj wrote:Surely you don't actually think that sling length/stiffness has zero correlation to gear walking, especially on wandering pitches?This accident resulted from a series of combined incidents. Kropp was relatively inexperienced at placing natural gear, and though a powerful athlete, was at his lead limit. The fact that the top cam pulled indicates that it was either placed incorrectly or walked into an insecure position, which is possible since he clipped all of his protection with short, stiff quickdraws.
When CAMS WALK, they go inward into the crack and never outward. Their basic design principal prevents them from walking outward.
Now if the CAM failed due to flaring into the open "passive" position which many modern cams are designed to be used in, then that is a far different issue. That then needs to be addressed with the manufacture of said CAM if it in fact was designed to take a load in the open "Passive" position and then it failed when it did.
But it didn't. It "pulled" and now where in that ANAM evaluation does it specifically state that it "walked out" and then "pulled". Again, CAMS do not walk outward. It is impossible due to their basic design.
They can walk inward and then get pulled up due to rope drag if the crack flares inward. Again, a string climber not knowing how to place gear. Was that the ONLY thing that caused Kropps accident? Prob not. But an Alpine club investigation concluded it was a major cause. But you know more than an experienced panel of climbers.....you already know it all don't ya?