Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:55 pm
mconnell wrote:Bombchaser wrote:
Proving experience and training is not difficult. There are certs for training, or at least letters of attendance. For experience, I have carried a GPS on nearly every peak I have climbed. Why do I do this, so I have a recorded track of the climb. Between my track records, whitnesses, and dated photos, experience can be proven. I also keep a climbing log of all climbs even small hiked summits.
I'm not sure so much the gear has to be proven, it's the total disregard for safety and not having essential items. Standing on a 14,400 foot peak with nothing but running clothes and then getting hurt or stranded due to the fact you are in nothing but running clothes would be negligent on your part. This would not be hard to prove at all. A reasonable person in the same situation would not do that. The guy that fell in running clothes, fell because he had no traction. It even stated he was using his hands to try and dig into the snow to self arrest. Crampons and an ice axe would have likely prevented this incident.
I can download a set of waypoints for anywhere I want and claim I recorded it on my own GPS. As for "certificates", do I get to print my own since I am mostly self taught or taught by friends?
And I strongly disagree that your running clothes scenario proves negligence. That is your opinion of what is reasonable. On average, several hundred people a day climb a 14,100' peak in running clothes within a couple miles of me. I guess if one of them slips on gravel and twists their ankle, they are being negligent? A "reasonable" person would have stayed home and sat on the couch. Some would say that anything else is unreasonable.
I think your missing the point on the proving experience aspect. These are just options for proving it. Persons who know you, track logs, climbing logs, certs, and whatever else help to prove experience. If you were hauled into court, these would be used. This site and everything on it, as well as this forum could be called to court. Pictures taken, with me standing on every summit I have ever been on would be called into court. So yes, everything can be used to prove experience. My gear could also be called into court. I have had to prove training and experience many times in my carrier field. It isn't rocket science.
Again, grasping for straws here. I can climb a 14,000 foot peak in running shoes if I choose. Just because a peak is 14,000 peak doesn't make it difficult. Mount Shasta is not a mountain you climb, caked in ice, in running shoes!!! A normal person under the same circumstances within the climbing community would not have done this, this is reckless!! UFSS climbing rangers, SAR personel, the local Sheriff, and climbing proffessionals in that area would also say this was not adequate gear. Common sense says you don't do something so foolish. A 14,000 peak in Utah is not the same as a 14,000 peak sitting near the Gulf of Alaska. A change in windflow can turn into a massive, localized storm on Shasta. Go on the internet and look up Lenticular Clouds on Shasta. This is a common occurance. This guy may have been able to make it up and back down in his running outfit, but had a lenticular set up he may have died from exposure. So basically he is going up there with the idea that if things get tough, then I will just call for help.