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Help! I'm an avid alpine and rock climber and for work I'm moving to one of the worlds flattest, lowest countries, the Netherlands!

In California I currently spend almost every free weekend climbing in the Sierra Nevada or Joshua Tree, both about 2.5 hrs from my home. What am I going to do in the Netherlands!

Sure I can't wait to climb in the Alps, but that's about a 9-10hr drive from NL; not good for frequent weekend trips. Are there any rock or alpine climbing locations near south NL (Eindhoven) that are close enough for regular weekend trips?

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Okay. And now a helpful answer....


Catch the flight to Glasgow or Edinburgh, only an hour away by plane, and head out there for the weekend. That's what I usually do and it works great. And flying in Europe is the equivalent of getting a greyhound bus in the US moneywise, but much faster of course.

Also, be prepared for the weather being much worse than what you're used to in California. Eindhoven sits at almost 52 degrees latitude, and even the Alps are at 45-48. Scotland is anywhere between 56 and 59. Expect the Alps to be similar to the Pacific Northwest, and Scotland to be similar to the Alaska Panhandle. A dry spell in the Netherlands and Scotland is when we don't see rain for a week. In the Alps it usually stays fairly stable during the summer though.

Cheers,
Clint.

There are also often cheap flights to southern Germany (Munich) and Switzerland (Geneva or Zürich) that combined with a train ride on a Friday evening could put you in range of fine climbing for a weekend. Garmisch-Patenkirchen comes to mind - less than one hour from Munich with tons of climbing and skiing.. The down side is you are going from sea level to high up very fast.

Edit for typos because I had too much wine and am not wearing my glasses....

Moni wrote:There are also often cheap flights to southern Germany (Munich) and Switzerland (Geneva or Zürich) that combined with a train rife on a Friday evening could put you in range of fine climbing for a weekend. Garmisch-Patenkirchen comes to mind - less than one hour from Munich with tons of climbing and skiing.. The down side is you are going from sea level to high up very fast.

Not necessarily... Eindhoven is inland... It's a staggering 20 metres asl.

ICE only takes 5 hours from Düsseldorf to München. Problem is getting to Düsseldorf, the Netherlands might as well be a third-world shitehole when it comes up to investing in cross-border infrastructure. Especially in my city these effects are felt because most of the new suburbs are laid out on the German side of the border. Nordrhein-Westfalen wants to invest; Nijmegen wants to invest, but the Dutch Gov't believes the money is better spent out west... European integration comes to mind...

Anyway, let's not go on a rant here... If OP has a car, he can drive it down to Düsseldorf, which is only 90 kilometres from Eindhoven, and hop on a ICE there. Or a EuroNight, take the Friday night service to Zürich and come back to Düsseldorf on Sunday night.

Gangolf knows a bit about trad routes down in Rheinland-Pfalz, which is feasible within a (long) day, and otherwise there still is the bridge in Köln.

Surely there are reasonable Amsterdam/Munich, etc flights!

20 meters to my mind is sea level. The point is that if coming from the Netherlands you do have to pay attention to elevation gain in a short period, especially over a weekend. Much like people from Seattle (my home state) should.

When Fred and I did Mont Blanc, we had been visiting my relatives in northern Germany at a heart pounding 30 meters AMSL afew days before. Talk about sucking gas and headaches....

Moni wrote:Surely there are reasonable Amsterdam/Munich, etc flights!

20 meters to my mind is sea level. The point is that if coming from the Netherlands you do have to pay attention to elevation gain in a short period, especially over a weekend. Much like people from Seattle (my home state) should.

When Fred and I did Mont Blanc, we had been visiting my relatives in northern Germany at a heart pounding 30 meters AMSL afew days before. Talk about sucking gas and headaches....

Nah, Amsterdam is better to avoid if one wants a cheap connection. Amsterdam is great for international flights, but if you're not leaving the EU it's better to stay far away from it... Taxes are off the scale there, and parking a car probably costs more than the flight itself. Besides that, Düsseldorf is much closer anyway. (that is, if you're driving to the airport). For domestic flights, I always use Weeze, Eindhoven or Düsseldorf. (And Düsseldorf even has great deals flying to America, but a limited number of destinations)

About going straight to altitude; I never had any problems with it. And on a few occasions I've gone straight from sea level to >3000 metres. And most stuff in the Alps that might pose problems with acclimatization (the high four-thousanders) are out of reach for a weekend climb anyway. Another problem in the Alps (which you probably fell victim to on Mont Blanc) is similar to what's found in the Cascades; the valley floors are very low, often below 1200 metres... When Climbing Mont Blanc, you probably woke up at less than 1000 metres and went to sleep at 3800 that night...

Proterra wrote:
When Climbing Mont Blanc, you probably woke up at less than 1000 metres and went to sleep at 3800 that night...

Got that right! We went from Uelzen (30 M) to Zürich (I think 600M) to Chamonix to the Gouter hut. (wheeze, wheeze, especially after sprinting across the Grand coulior).

My point is, that you might not get altitude sick but surely you'll feel it, especially since gondolas and the like will get you high up quickly.

It's like me to forget how really little all this part of Europe is - that Düssledorf would be closer and better than Amsterdam to catch a cheap flight.

Thanks for the input. It sounds like a logistical challenge to get any good climbing from the Netherlands but I'm sure I'll get use to it. More evidence of how spoiled I've become living in California where I can climb a couple 4,300 meter peaks in the morning and be home to watch the sun set over the Pacific Ocean in the same day.

Maybe I'll be able to find a climbing gym in Eindhoven to lessen the effects of the withdrawals.

P.S. Proterra, congrats on having the most impressively complex profile on SP.

Maybe some input from a Dutchman will help you. First of all, yes, The Netherlands is a depressingly flat country! Nevertheless, there are a couple of options for climbing that don't involve flying to Scotland (although highly recommendable!) or taking an 8hour drive to the Alps.

There are a surprising number of climbing gyms and a very good bouldering facility recently opened in Eindhoven: http://www.monkbouldergym.nl/. Also, if you have a car then there are quite a few decent crags nearby in Belgium and Germany.
The most well known Belgian climbing area is called Freyr and is located near a place called Dinant. You'll find extensive limestone crags that, although polished by lots of use, offer a great number of good climbs (multipitch even!). Take a look on http://www.belclimb.net for a good overview of the climbing areas in Belgium, the site even has an English version.
The closest climbing area in Germany is just over the border near the Dutch town of Enschede along the Autobahn in the direction of Hannover. It's called Ibbenburen and consists of rocky outcrops scattered through a forest. It's accessibility makes it nice for a quick trip and there a couple of very enjoyable routes there.
For a real German climbing mecca, head further along the same Autobahn until Hameln and head for a tiny little place called Ith were there are extensive limestone crags which are far less polished than the ones in Belgium and are a little more adventurously equipped, meaning you get to play around with nuts&friends.
Heading further south in Germany you can go climbing on the basalt rocks of Ettringen which, with plenty of handjamming cracks, might resemble U.S. climbing more closely and is a great place to work on trad skills.

If you've got more time or want to go on a bigger climb the Alps are of course the place to go. Austrian alps are relatively close and central Switzerland is also only an 8 hours drive away. Too many options to mention, Summitpost has lots of suggestions!

Feel free to send me an email if you need more information on climbing in (near) the low countries!

regards,

Bart

Climbing areas in germany: http://www.dav-felsinfo.de/
Belgium: http://belclimb.net/crags_home.asp?s=ro ... mbing&id=6

Gyms in germany -- unfortunately there is not that much along the border to NL.
Gyms in NL: Eindhoven has a gym; near Rotterdam (1,5h from E.) there is an artificial outdoor "rock", 35m tall: "Monte Cervino"

HTH, Martin

Great information everyone. Thanks! Now I'm a little less worried about my move. I'll probably be contacting a few of you to pester you for more info or to see if you wouldn't be bothered by having a humble American (I know, I know) tag along with you on a climb or two until I can learn my way around.

No climbing apart from indoorclimbing (more than 26 good big climbing-walls)...There is one very nice one called Monte Cervino, a kind of copy of the Matterhorn Mountain,..where you can climb outside (even multi-pitch) and inside...

Anyway, as said by other members,...you have the Apls about 7-8 hours with the car. Not so bad...one day driving and you have the place to be in front of your eyes!!

Good luck in the Netherlands,

sjarelkwint wrote:

Moni wrote:

Proterra wrote:
When Climbing Mont Blanc, you probably woke up at less than 1000 metres and went to sleep at 3800 that night...

Got that right! We went from Uelzen (30 M) to Zürich (I think 600M) to Chamonix to the Gouter hut. (wheeze, wheeze, especially after sprinting across the Grand coulior).

My point is, that you might not get altitude sick but surely you'll feel it, especially since gondolas and the like will get you high up quickly.

It's like me to forget how really little all this part of Europe is - that Düssledorf would be closer and better than Amsterdam to catch a cheap flight.

You can also fly with ryanair from eindhoven or with corendon ... Just check those websites out!

I've been in Califoria for some hiking and there's a big difference in the altitude between europe and california ... In california i didn't feel a thing at 3000m in europe i've had troubles at 2000m . Not troubles, just felt the altitude actually ...

Aye. From Eindhoven one can fly to Bergamo (near Milan, for the Alps), Girona (Pyrenees) and Madrid. Corendon isn't worth it, they only fly to Istanbul, as far as I know, although you could check Wizzair out, they fly from Eindhoven to Katowice, which is quite close to the Tatra Mountains.

Sjarel; about the mountains; you could actually be right about that because California is much further south than most places in Europe. The further one gets from the equator to the poles, the steeper the pressure gradient in the atmosphere becomes, due to the rotation of the Earth the atmosphere "bulges" at the equator.

skotty wrote:Help! I'm an avid alpine and rock climber and for work I'm moving to one of the worlds flattest, lowest countries, the Netherlands!

In California I currently spend almost every free weekend climbing in the Sierra Nevada or Joshua Tree, both about 2.5 hrs from my home. What am I going to do in the Netherlands!

Sure I can't wait to climb in the Alps, but that's about a 9-10hr drive from NL; not good for frequent weekend trips. Are there any rock or alpine climbing locations near south NL (Eindhoven) that are close enough for regular weekend trips?

Hey don't worry, I think Denmark is even flatter

As pointed out perfectly by Zeddicus, the belgian ardennes and germany are really close by and offer plenty of enjoyable climbing spots. Ideal for a weekend trip, or even a day trip. From Eindhoven, it's about 200 km to the ardennes. I've once cycled to the ardennes from Eindhoven even. So you should not be climb-starved, although it's no Switzerland here.