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Mont Blanc normal route is technically easy, no discussion about this,

but it is also :

1. tiring due to altitude and because it is a long way up and ... down ! ( do not underestimate acclimation process even if you are fit )

2. dangerous ( easy does not mean safe ! ) because :
- the conditions that can vary much ( weather, ice or snow , etc ...)
- if you are tired or altitude sick, everything becomes difficult !
- and , but this my very personnal point of view, because it is much too much overcrowded : this can gives a wrong feeling of safety but in practice it can make some place unconfortable when the ones going up cross the ones going down ( I hate overcrowded routes ... )

It's tricky to plan your trip based on pictures. Normally people only take pictures when the overall conditions are good. You don't see a lot of pictures taken from the inside of a crevasse or during a (snow) storm.

Last year I made the unforgivable mistake not to use a rope on a glacier we passed that week 5 times.
I was the last person (3rd) and fell into a crevasse, luckily saved by my back pack that was stuck on the edge. This was a valuable lesson, always rope up on a glacier unless he's "aper". The amount of people that already crossed doesn't tell anything about the condition of the snow bridge.

What do youe mean by "In case of weather turns bad, we have enough time to wait for better time." In the Alps the weather can change in minutes, for example, read this post "http://www.summitpost.org/article/221190/how-a-storm-comes-to-mt-blanc.html".
When you're on the mountain and the weather changes you will be on your own with a group of people without experience.

I really don't understand why you don't want to hire a guide. Just consider his guidance as a small course that you can use the next time!

CezaryK wrote:Hello!
I wonder how hard and dangerous is to go down go through le Grand Plateau then les Petites Montes, les Grand Mulets sheleter-house, and down across la Jonction and Glacier des Bossons. I'm specifically asking for any details about the trail through Glacier des Bossons, since its advertised differently. One say it's quite safe, while the other call it a hell on the earth. How hard is to pass these crevasses? What's snow consistency in the summertime?

The problem with the Bosson route are twofold. The first is that you've absolutely no guarantee there's an open route down to the Grandes Mulets hut. It may be because of the crevasses OR it may be because an avalanche has fallen and is blocking the passage. In either cases, you may be forced to call for rescue, or return all the way up to the Col des Bosses, or try to find an alternative route (which may be impossible).

In general the Bossons route is NOT suitable for beginners (in general, beginners should climb MB only with more experienced people of guides). The risk of avalanches around the Petit Plateau is very high in the afternoon - I mean VERY high. You should really consider coming back the way you went up.

In case of weather turns bad, we have enough time to wait for better time. From my point of view it is really an 'easy walk'.

On Mt Blanc this is an highly dangerous frame of mind. If weather turns bad, your chances for survival (even if you're well equipped, even if you're digging in) becomes very low after 48 hours if you're around 4000m, and just after 24 hours if you're above 4600m. After that, just superior physical strength and a lot of experience will safe you (and a lot of luck too). Remember that rescue may NOT be able to fly in if conditions become too bad, even if they try very hard (and they will, believe me).

No one is sandbagging you here - that's simply the fairly plain truth. The mountains will always be there, no point on rushing up thing!!!

papyours wrote:Mont Blanc normal route is technically easy, no discussion about this,

but it is also :

1. tiring due to altitude and because it is a long way up and ... down ! ( do not underestimate acclimation process even if you are fit )

2. dangerous ( easy does not mean safe ! ) because :
- the conditions that can vary much ( weather, ice or snow , etc ...)
- if you are tired or altitude sick, everything becomes difficult !
- and , but this my very personnal point of view, because it is much too much overcrowded : this can gives a wrong feeling of safety but in practice it can make some place unconfortable when the ones going up cross the ones going down ( I hate overcrowded routes ... )

papyours, fully agree!

Olaf wrote:It's tricky to plan your trip based on pictures. Normally people only take pictures when the overall conditions are good. You don't see a lot of pictures taken from the inside of a crevasse or during a (snow) storm.

Last year I made the unforgivable mistake not to use a rope on a glacier we passed that week 5 times.
I was the last person (3rd) and fell into a crevasse, luckily saved by my back pack that was stuck on the edge. This was a valuable lesson, always rope up on a glacier unless he's "aper". The amount of people that already crossed doesn't tell anything about the condition of the snow bridge.

What do youe mean by "In case of weather turns bad, we have enough time to wait for better time." In the Alps the weather can change in minutes, for example, read this post "http://www.summitpost.org/article/221190/how-a-storm-comes-to-mt-blanc.html".
When you're on the mountain and the weather changes you will be on your own with a group of people without experience.

I really don't understand why you don't want to hire a guide. Just consider his guidance as a small course that you can use the next time!

Olaf, I will think it over again. I was just assured by a more experienced guy, that it is definitely not needed there in the middle of July. As you may also know, roping up has its pros and cons (one might pull the others when falling, etc.)
I've already seen that post about the storm. I wonder if you took this into a consideration: "despite a clear meteorological warning, and apparently against the advice of some guide, to attempt the climb of Mt. Blanc via the Gouter route" What I'm trying to express, is that I HAVE ENOUGH WINTER MOUNTAINEERING EXPERIENCE TO RECOGNIZE GOOD AND BAD CONDITIONS FOR CLIMBING AS WELL AS PRETTY GOOD EQUIPMENT TO SURVIVE. Comparing Gouter route to the climbs I've done, it is definitely an 'easy walk'.
Sorry, but I was just asking for the opinions on the glacier travel through La Jonction.

signorellil wrote:The problem with the Bosson route are twofold. The first is that you've absolutely no guarantee there's an open route down to the Grandes Mulets hut. It may be because of the crevasses OR it may be because an avalanche has fallen and is blocking the passage. In either cases, you may be forced to call for rescue, or return all the way up to the Col des Bosses, or try to find an alternative route (which may be impossible).

Thanks, signorellil. I'm planning to try that route next year, as well as the advertised '3 Mounts Traversee'

signorellil wrote:In general the Bossons route is NOT suitable for beginners (in general, beginners should climb MB only with more experienced people of guides). The risk of avalanches around the Petit Plateau is very high in the afternoon - I mean VERY high. You should really consider coming back the way you went up.

Agree, except that I know at least 4 persons that did that on their own. And they also know many that did it on their own too, and those know many... What's surprising, they didn't have any special alpine experience. Only a common sense in their minds.

signorellil wrote:On Mt Blanc this is an highly dangerous frame of mind. If weather turns bad, your chances for survival (even if you're well equipped, even if you're digging in) becomes very low after 48 hours if you're around 4000m, and just after 24 hours if you're above 4600m. After that, just superior physical strength and a lot of experience will safe you (and a lot of luck too). Remember that rescue may NOT be able to fly in if conditions become too bad, even if they try very hard (and they will, believe me).

No one is sandbagging you here - that's simply the fairly plain truth. The mountains will always be there, no point on rushing up thing!!!

Agree! We carefully planned the trip to eliminate the risk of being caught by a storm. On a first day we're going to reach Tete Rouse, starting from La Houches. It should be fairly simple. Next day, very early in the morning, if the weather forecast is good, we're climbing up to the Gouter. Staying there for the rest of the day and night. Next day, about 3 AM, only if the forecast is good enough, we are starting to reach the top. In case you're doubting how we can reach Tete Rouse in one day, we are all multiple marathoners, hill runners, mountain bikers...

Thanks for your responses!

sergio wrote:CezaryK,

you could bring a rope and keep it in your pack in case there is a need for it. If conditions are good, then just walk up, if the crevasses are open and you need to cross such an area, you can always tie in.

Hi sergio, it seems that it's the best option. I often try to minimize the gear I take, but since it is going to be my first time above 4000m, a rope in my backpack can bring peace to my mind

sergio wrote:Anyway, last year four students from Grenoble died on this easy route less than a quarter mile from the hut, they couldn't find their way back.

I wonder if GPS tool is useful up there...

sergio wrote:A month later a group of students carried a full on Jacuzzi spa to the summit and then they all took a bath. Different days, different outcome.

OMG!

sergio wrote:Summer storms in the Alps are to be experienced to really understand what they are. I totally understand that you don't want a guide and I agree with you, but keep in mind that only good planning is what will make a difference. Go, have fun and be safe!

I could imagine it's a hell on earth. I'm also hungry for hardcore experiences

If it is true that " you don't have any experience on glaciers" then you DEFINITELY need a guide. I am amazed how many people are outraged when that option is mentioned. Everything looks fine and enjoyable with nice weather but if sudden fog hits on a glacier, everything becomes a soupy white landscape. A guide in those situations can be life-saving ! I have been on glaciers with fog (meaning traveling on glaciers in the midst of clouds at altitude) where crevasses could be a few meters away and a guide who had taken the same route countless times had to use a compass and altimeters to find one's location!!!

One piece of advice: hire a guide and you will greatly enjoy the mountain experience.

Good luck

JanG

Why not overcome the problem with a simple training in crevasse rescue?

As you have mentioned winter climbing I suppose you're experienced with belaying etc. so you won't need a guide to teach you; just transfer you're paper knowledge into experience with practising a day on the bossons glacier or mer de glace or so -- what also would help your acclimatisation.

Martin

CezaryK wrote:...I noticed many answering just like: "do not go there stupid!"

I hope that, sometimes, someone will publish a statistic about the deaths of climbers on Mont Blanc and in Mont Blanc Group - I bet that more than 90% of the hundreds/thousands (don't know how many) happened along the normal routes from Chamonix ...
bet we are free to choose how and where to die

PS - after the 3 M.Blanc route (my 1st time on M.Blanc) I came down along the Grand Plateau Petites Montes, Grand Mulets. Jonction and Glacier des Bossons crossing to Plan Des Aiguilles : it was easy, crevasses were easy to cross and the weather was fantastic

Flachlandtiroler wrote:Why not overcome the problem with a simple training in crevasse rescue?

As you have mentioned winter climbing I suppose you're experienced with belaying etc. so you won't need a guide to teach you; just transfer you're paper knowledge into experience with practising a day on the bossons glacier or mer de glace or so -- what also would help your acclimatisation.

Martin

That's a part of our plan too!

gabriele wrote:I hope that, sometimes, someone will publish a statistic about the deaths of climbers on Mont Blanc and in Mont Blanc Group - I bet that more than 90% of the hundreds/thousands (don't know how many) happened along the normal routes from Chamonix ...
bet we are free to choose how and where to die

PS - after the 3 M.Blanc route (my 1st time on M.Blanc) I came down along the Grand Plateau Petites Montes, Grand Mulets. Jonction and Glacier des Bossons crossing to Plan Des Aiguilles : it was easy, crevasses were easy to cross and the weather was fantastic

Agree, gabriele. Can you also imagine how many dies on streets, driving their cars, day by day...

JanG wrote:If it is true that " you don't have any experience on glaciers" then you DEFINITELY need a guide. I am amazed how many people are outraged when that option is mentioned. Everything looks fine and enjoyable with nice weather but if sudden fog hits on a glacier, everything becomes a soupy white landscape. A guide in those situations can be life-saving ! I have been on glaciers with fog (meaning traveling on glaciers in the midst of clouds at altitude) where crevasses could be a few meters away and a guide who had taken the same route countless times had to use a compass and altimeters to find one's location!!!

One piece of advice: hire a guide and you will greatly enjoy the mountain experience.

Good luck

JanG

This thread is not about whether to hire a guide or not. It's about crossing Glacier des Bossons in July on a way down from Mt Blanc summit...

when in Chamonix I advise you go through La maison de la Montagne ( or similar name ) which is in the same building than the Guides Office

they have an office open to public where they advise about the current conditions in Mont Blanc Massif from the feed-back of other people, of guides, of PGHM / CRS ( the rescue teams ), etc ...

it is free of charge and you can also have access to many topo's and see some nice 3D scaled models of Mont Blanc area

also, the latest weather forecasts are punched on the wall by the door

it is in the center of Chamonix, not far from tourism office and from the church

papyours wrote:when in Chamonix I advise you go through La maison de la Montagne ( or similar name ) which is in the same building than the Guides Office

they have an office open to public where they advise about the current conditions in Mont Blanc Massif from the feed-back of other people, of guides, of PGHM / CRS ( the rescue teams ), etc ...

it is free of charge and you can also have access to many topo's and see some nice 3D scaled models of Mont Blanc area

also, the latest weather forecasts are punched on the wall by the door

it is in the center of Chamonix, not far from tourism office and from the church

Sounds nice! I think I know where it is, from what you've written, I see I was quite close to it when I was in Chamonix last year.
I've read about crappy weather conditions in French Alps these days. Some experimental long term forecasts say it is going to be stormy in July. Hope it turns better soon...