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OK, I basically asked the same question last time about Yosemite vs Gunks and I've learned first-hand that they really can't be compared. But the climbing in the Sierras are supposed to be more face-climbing so presumably it's easier to compare the climbing grades.

So: can I, a 5.7 Gunks leader, hop on a Sierra 5.7 without getting spanked?

Yes you can. I always heard that western state ratings were a bit softer than the Gunks. As long as you feel comfortable with hand, finger and foot jamming, and are able to place gear from such jams, 5.7 should be fine. 5.9 is another matter though, both for cracks and slabs!

As an old gunkie, I'd say a gunks 5.7 is generally harder. But I did get spanked my first trip to JT, as I was really unfamiliar with friction and runouts.

And I'd have to disagree about the 5.9's being any different - there were some bad ass Henry Barber routes in the gunks that were very pumpy. Many of those were put up when you'd really have to justify a 5.10 rating.

Exposure and altitude are the differing elements in the equation -- even if the moves are similar in technical difficulty.

But just like ski areas state in their legalese on trail maps, most grading is relative to the area.

FWIW, I think it's easier to get off-route in the Sierra -- and the "Thank God" Buckets are scarcer. Then, too, the commute to the crag generally requires more commitment...

kheegster wrote:OK, I basically asked the same question last time about Yosemite vs Gunks and I've learned first-hand that they really can't be compared. But the climbing in the Sierras are supposed to be more face-climbing so presumably it's easier to compare the climbing grades.

So: can I, a 5.7 Gunks leader, hop on a Sierra 5.7 without getting spanked?

It depends..... on you



GK

Get on a Clevenger, Harrington, Higgins, Kamps or Laeger Sierra 5.8+, and find out for yourself.

You may just want to go back to the Gunks for some more rock time.

Remember, route ratings really have no meaning when you are up there as they are all relative to the style of the day that they were put up.

Something for all to ponder before getting on any route.

PS: It has been said by many "old skoolers" that one best be a solid modern 5.10 climber to get on any of the above's 5.8+'s. I would seriously take that advice to the bank.

so, 5.8+ is really 5.10. that must mean 5.10- is easier than 5.8+... but i digress...

x15x15 wrote:so, 5.8+ is really 5.10. that must mean 5.10- is easier than 5.8+... but i digress...

Pitch 7 on the DNB of Merriam was originally rated 5.9+ by both Vern and Bob after the FA. After several ensuing ascents and 20 some years later, they both gave in to it's original rating being upgraded to .... .10b


There are many other upgrading examples such as the one above throughout the Sierra. Many of Alan Bartlett lines have been upgraded from the original proverbial 5.9+ to well into the .10's as well. Some of those are still questioned as low. Mithral Dihedral being one of em.

The Chief wrote:

x15x15 wrote:so, 5.8+ is really 5.10. that must mean 5.10- is easier than 5.8+... but i digress...

Pitch 7 on the DNB of Merriam was originally rated 5.9+ by both Vern and Bob after the FA. After several ensuing ascents and 20 some years later, they both gave in to it's original rating being upgraded to .... .10b


There are many other upgrading examples such as the one above throughout the Sierra. Many of Alan Bartlett lines have been upgraded from the original proverbial 5.9+ to well into the .10's as well. Some of those are still questioned as low. Mithral Dihedral being one of em.

i am just "chain yanking" on this silly topic. but if you wanna get serious, some of that high sierra 4th class is pretty effing hard!!!

x15x15 wrote:... but if you wanna get serious, some of that high sierra 4th class is pretty effing hard!!!

I enjoy watching the noobs head onto some of those Clyde 4th class gigs thinking they will be a walk in the park.....

x15x15 wrote:

The Chief wrote:so, 5.8+ is really 5.10. that must mean 5.10- is easier than 5.8+... but i digress...

i am just "chain yanking" on this silly topic. but if you wanna get serious, some of that high sierra 4th class is pretty effing hard!!!

seriously now..... if you lead 5.7 in the gunks you will be fine in the sierra on older 5.7s.

on any old climb that has a "+" or a "d" in it's rating I would be cautious. That means they couldn't really tell how hard it was...... it's sort of a push.

the system goes like this.... 5.8, 5.9, 5.10, 5.10a, 5.9+, 5.10b, 5.10c, 5.11, 5.11a, 5.10d, 5.11b, 5.11c, 5.12, 5.12a, 5.12b, 5.11d, 5.12c ...... and on and on....

I find the best gauge to use in determining how hard a climb might be is to know who did it first and assigned the rating.

If it was John Bachar, you had better bring your guns because you will be in for a surprise ..... but I think John gets it right.

I've never done a 5.7 anywhere in California which could be compared to certain Gunks classics in terms of difficulty. "Drunkards Delight," "Classic," and "Cascading Crystal Caleidascope" come to mind.

What you will encounter in the Sierra are alpine challenges like sneaking through sections of loose rock (The Chief mentioned Merriam Peak,) routefinding, approach logistics etc.

Anyway I'm sure there are exceptions but as a rule 5.7 in the Gunks will be steeper and more athletic than the same grade out here.

sooo, it seems the general consensus is....

a gunk's 5.7 climber will have bigger guns, but MAY still get spanked on a sierra 5.7... dang, i thought the internet was supposed to make climbing easy!

You should have no trouble with the "classic" Sierra 5.7's...i.e. the routes in Supertopo. Beware of Temple Crag though, as the rock quality adds a certain spice. You should definitely get on East Buttress of Whitney and think about North Ridge of Bear Creek Spire (rated 5.8, but mostly easier and the 5.8 is well protected). Charlotte Dome is also excellent and rated 5.8, but if you can lead 5.7's in the Gunks ON SIGHT, you'll be fine (same story with Clyde Minarete w/o the direct start).

The Chief wrote:Get on a Clevenger, Harrington, Higgins, Kamps or Laeger Sierra 5.8+, and find out for yourself.

Or a Norman Clyde class 4!